Oblivion talk:Sigil Stone/Archive 2

This is an archive of past Oblivion talk:Sigil Stone discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Pickup multiple sigil stones.

It is truly possible to pickup multiple sigil stones from one sigillum sanguis. however, this can only be done in the Kvatch oblivion gate.84.80.16.245 05:36, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

I've picked up multiple sigil stones from one sigillum sanguis and it wasn't fron the Kvatch gate, it was from the gate used in the quest The Wayward Knight--BigRussian 00:28, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

See the posts above for more info, but I can confirm that you can get several stones in other oblivion worlds. I've done it in the Cheydinhal world with Farwil Indarys with me and in oblivion world 2 while just walking around hunting for sigil stones before doing the Defense of Bruma quest.--Crapulax 20:40, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Is it possible to combine sigil stone

I was just wondering is there anything any has done to try to combine sigil stone affects on weapons or items. — Unsigned comment by Mrmarty13 (talk • contribs) on 29 July

In a word, no. One stone per item. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 12:34, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

Great sigil stone

i have a question; does the great sigil stone from the main quest defence of bruma have any special effects? is it more powerfull? — Unsigned comment by 213.125.158.224 (talk) on 3 February 2009

Nope. You can't do anything with it except hand it over to Martin. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 07:20, 3 February 2009 (EST)

Sigil stone effect on stolen items

Is it noted somewhere that if you use a Sigil stone to enchant a stolen item, it no longer registers as stolen and can be sold to any merchant with enough cash? I just ran across this effect and it seems very useful for those characters who don't want to become thieves. Wordmama 13:23, 15 March 2009 (EDT)

Nope, it's not noted anywhere that I could find. It should go on Oblivion:Glitches, so I've proposed it here. Nice catch! - Game Lord^{Talk|Contribs} 13:37, 15 March 2009 (EDT)

It's noted in the Enchanting article, as a Sigil Stone is just one method of enchanting apparel, weapons or armor. If you enchant an item, its ownership is reset and it will lose its stolen status. Automatically repairs a broken item to 100%, too. —Dark Spark 13:53, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

all impossible effects

It would be nice if there was a list of all effects that aren't possible before the effects that are. Looking through the table is not very convenient. I noticed that one is mentioned as an example. — Unsigned comment by 67.183.28.2 (talk) on 30 May 2009

All that is required is for someone to do a "Find" action to see if it is on the list. I don't think both are necessary. --Mr. Oblivion^(T-C) 02:57, 30 May 2009 (EDT)

Disintigration Sigil Stone

When I grabbed the sigil stone and used it to enchant a weapon (obviously saving before hand) it made the weapon disappear... I loaded the game and looked at the effects (something I should have done anyways) and it said disintigrate. Is it because I wasn't really a magical character, or is that a glitch? I've never heard of that before... 66.188.255.145 05:53, 23 July 2009 (UTC)TM

Did you check all through your inventory? Of course, the item is renamed to what you choose, and it's automatically unequipped from you, too. Sometimes, certain mods (like Bag of Holding) make items (most notably weapons and armor, mostly repairable things) disappear, but they reappear once the inventory is altered a bit. 207.171.199.19 01:28, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

This is a bug. I'm having the same problem. It only occurs with certain stones, and will make the item disappear altogether upon a new load. 70.162.216.17 22:34, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

As the earlier poster said, you probably have this bug. Try putting things into another container and seeing if your sword reappears. rpeh •T•C•E• 13:12, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Damage

(moved from the article)

It is also worth noting the platry damage effects from any of the elementry stones, likewise with the shield rating, fortify attribute effects and absorb health effects. One can only surmise Bethesda did intend for greater effects but simply neglected to compare the results with those obtainable via Soul gem enchanting. Either that or at one time intended for sigil stones to be stackable. Example I have a sword [Bound sword from the doomstone close to layawin] enchanted with a stolen grand soul gem [chorral mages guild] close to the beginning of the game. Not only is this sword obtainable within the first level of the game. It will remain one of the dealiest right till the end. It has: - weakness to shock 25% for 6 seconds - weakness to frost 25% for 5 seconds - weakness to fire 25% for 5 seconds - shock damage 14 points - frost damage 12 points - fire damage 12 points - weakness to magicka 25% for 5 seconds.

The total damage this provides is: on first strike: 66 points of damage. [with sword at 100% health and blade skill at 100] - 28 [base damage of weapon] + 38 [magicks] = 66 points of damage done [obviously not including birth star effects etc]

on the second strike this blade would do: 77.875 points of damage. [with sword at 100% health and blade skill at 100] - 28 [base] + 18.375 shock [1% of 14 = 0.14 * 31.25 [weakness to shock altered by the weakness to magicka effect from previous strike [since weakness to magicka improves the 25% weakness to element by 25% which equals 0.25 decimal or 1/4 imperial. 25 / 4 = 6.25% ,25% [weakness to element base rate] + 6.25% = 31.25%] = 4.375 + 14 [base shock damage] = 18.375 + 15.75 frost [1% of 12 = 0.12 * 31.25 = 3.75 + 12 [base frost damage] = 15.75 + 15.75 fire [1% of 12 = 0.12 * 31.25 = 3.75 + 12 [base fire damage] = 15.75 = (15.75 * 2) + 18.375 = 49.875 [total magicka damage]. Total magicka damage [49.875] + base weapon damage [28] = 49.875 + 28 = 77.875

As you can see 77.875 is Immensly better than the pathetic 25 points of elemental damage, the 25 points of absorb health, or the 30 points of damage health provided by transcendent sigil sontes [For a maximum of 58 damage]. In my opinion the only useful sigil stones are those that offer fotify magicka, Detect life or feather [125 points improves speed and offers more encumberance capacity than the comparable [again paltry] fortify strength 12 points [an extra encumbarance of 60 points].

Ah yes this is me sorry... Should I have posted this under enchantments and simply made a note in the sigil stones sections about how poor there effects are for the most part?...

Sarch Lalaith — Unsigned comment by 90.213.53.89 (talk) on 11 August 2009

It's far too detailed for our purposes. I'm not sure exactly what point you were trying to make, but it looks like a note saying that Grand Soul Gems can sometimes create more powerful enchantments than sigil stones would sum it up... but even that isn't necessary. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 04:56, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

uhm ok. the point i was making is that for the most part people neednt knock themselves out by sigil stone hunting which as mathamatically proved above [even with best sigil stone] will always yeild an inferior effect on weapon/armour than a well used soul gem with onlt the exceptions, which i stated above. This was designed to be a difinitve guide for a rokkie enchinting an item. — Unsigned comment by 94.10.167.190 (talk) at 03:37 on 18 January 2010 (UTC)

While it is true that you can create stronger weapon enchantments with soul gems, the armor enchantments are considerably stronger with sigil stones. Your opinion of useful enchantments is simply that, your Opinion

Another factor that you have failed to consider is the weapons charge, you will get a lot more uses out of a sigil stone enchanted weapon than you would from a soul gem weapon of comparible strength.--Rhomphaia^T•C 03:32, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

• There is a notable difference between the magnitude and numbers of offensive and defensive effects available with Sigil Stones and Soul Gems.
• Sarch's numbers are factual, and a non-PoV summary of their conclusion should be included. All statements containing or in the style of 'in my opinion' and 'one can only assume' would have to be removed, of course.
• "would sum it up" and "isn't necessary", are unproven and possibly unprovable opinions.
• Rhomphaia's facts, with a little bit of verification, should serve as an excellent counterpart to Sarch's.
  
• Proposed:
  

"When enchanting armor, Sigil Stones' enchantments are of greater magnitude, and Soul Gems can only enchant armor with a single effect. The reverse is true of enchanting weapons; Grand Soul Gems allow the combination of effects (eg Weakness to Magicka + Weakness to Fire + Fire Damage) to achieve results not attainable with Sigil Stones, and the base value of single weapon enchantments are higher with Grand Soul Gems as well. Sigil Stones offer a larger amount of charge, for extended use of charged weapons."
...Assuming that it can be verified that Sigil stones offer a larger amount of charge, and that the base value of single enchantments are higher with Soul gems.Anarchangel 08:01, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

The charge values of the sigil stones are already listed on the article, here, under the effect with the formula (Charge/EnchantmentCost=Uses). The value of Enchantment Cost is the charge that you would need to enchant a weapon with that effect.

It is plain to see how much higher charge trancendant sigil stones offer compared to the 1600 from a grand soul gem (consider the burden trancendant sigil stone with a charge of 7980, it is an extreme example but most trancendants offer at least twice as much charge).

Enchanting with a soul gem is also limeted to a max Enchantment cost of 85 (18 uses), some sigil stones offer a stronger enchantment than this, namely;

• Turn Undead
• Silence
• Dispel
• Disintegrate Weapon/Armor
• Demoralize
• Damage Health
• Burden
• Absorb Attribute
• Absorb Magicka
• Absorb Health
• Absorb Fatigue

--Rhomphaia^T•C 03:42, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

I should be wrong more often. When I am right, editors just blither at me until they realize they cannot intimidate me then go away rather than have to concede my points. When I am wrong, they write half an article's worth of useful information to prove me so. All of what you wrote is applicable to the subject in my opinion. I hope some place is found to put it.

So "Sigil Stones offer a larger amount of charge" is proven, and "the base value of single weapon enchantments are higher" is disproven (and should be values plural, now that I look at it again). Since all the (imo) useful weapon enchantments (damage) are entirely absent from the Enchanting article, I cannot yet say, although I suspect it is true, that "the values of damage-dealing enchantments (Damage Health, Fire Damage etc) on weapons are higher" Anarchangel 14:43, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Damage Health is an exeption as I noted above, you can get 30pts with the sigil stone, only 28 with the grand soul gem.

for elemental damage you can have up to 40 for the GSG though, Damage Magicka and Soul trap are similar cases. That appears to be it though, for the most part Sigil stones actually offer higher enchantments than soul gems, the major advantage of soul gems is to create multiple effect enchantments as noted above (even if the premise above is flawed and factors in base weapon damage into soul gem but not sigil stone, should be 77 vs 53 rather than 77 vs 25).--Rhomphaia^T•C 03:52, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, I think that about wraps it up, except that he did in fact mention the sword damage, albeit tardily: "(For a maximum of 58 damage)". Would you consider adding this research to the Enchanting page? Damage is Soul gems' strong point, yet the only enchantments listed are defensive and support. Anarchangel 04:18, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

sigil stone and game freeze

i realised that if i cant remove the sigil the game will freeze very soon. is it just due to cache?P90 user 12:19, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

I've sat in front of a sigil stone in oblivion for awhile (cause i walked away for awhile and forgot to pause) and it didn't freeze so it might be your cache. unless your system or game is old, sometimes that affects things

Light

If one enchanted two pieces of armor with Light from sigil stones, would you come out with 150 light? or would it stay at 75, does it stack like detect life?71.125.130.162 01:52, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

From my tests it dosen't. I didn't use Sigil Stones but just an enchantment and a spell.--Corevette789 02:02, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not really sure, but I think that it's stackable. If you want to make sure if it stacks, you can cast two spells (with different name), and look at your active effects chart. If it shows that you have an amount of light equal to the sum of the two spells, then it stacks. --S'drassa ^•T2M 03:33, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

There is no mention of stacking on the spell page either.--Corevette789 03:39, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I just tested it by casting starlight and daylight, and it showed in my active effects menu that I had a light effect of 80ft, meaning that it does stack. I'll add a note to the page. --S'drassa ^•T2M 03:51, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Cannot active the sigil stone in any gate.

Whenever I get to the Sigillum Sanguis of any gate, and attempt to grab the sigil stone, there is no option to activate it. I have saved outside of random gates, and this has happened in every single gate, every time I reload. Is there any way to fix this bug? (I should also mention that I'm playing on the 360.)

Sigil stone effects

I know the effects of sigil stones are randomly determined, but do you always get a unique sigil stone or can you get two sigil stones with the same effects (e. g., two sigil stones with Fortify/Drain fatigue)? --IronMaiden 12:57, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

yes you can get more then one--GUM!!! 13:05, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

yes for an example; four enchanted pieces whit the "silence/chamelion"stone will give chameleon 120% constantly!!! --Lord 306

This is easily accomplished if you manage to get multiple sigils from one gate. MikeTalk 01:50, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Main Profile Screwed???

I'm doing the main quest on my lvl 55 "perfect" character and I can't activate the sigil stone in the Bruma Gate... Are there any suggestions to fix this or am I just screwed? — Unsigned comment by 70.184.239.162 (talk) on June 12, 2010

Load the last autosave and try again. MikeTalk 23:23, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Or you can use the console command CloseCurrentOblivionGate if you are playing the PC version of the game. Vesna 02:20, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Why was my note removed?

Why my note has been removed? It is true about Kvatch sigil stone being most notable and certain place of multiple activations bug. - ZuTheSkunk 01:36, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Any quest-related gate will give you multiple sigil stones. Adding that one as the most notable will likely warrant the addition of comments like (and the Great Gate you can collect multiple useless Great Sigil Stones, and etc etc). Rather than detailing all of the instances here, they are dealt at the individual quest pages. This is my take. The person who actually reverted the edit will probably have a similar reason. Vesna 01:53, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, that's why I removed the note. I forgot to summarize though and the page was... Stubborn about letting me make a non-edit to add a summary.--TheAlbinoOrc^{any_questions?} 18:33, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Fire Shield

Do all stones have the same chance of appearing?

I have got many trascendent stones, quick-loading alot in all of them looking for fire shield.

I have seen all the other stones listed here multiple times each, and not a single [Fire damage/Fire shield] since I started looking for it.

-Wizy 81.172.12.28 23:57, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

There are equal chances for each stone. You're just having bad luck. – Robin Hood↝talk 01:23, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Well that and RN (Random Number) generators do have some carry over from the last result.--TheAlbinoOrc^{any_questions?} 22:56, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

For most tasks, it looks like Oblivion is just using the C++ rand() function, which is known for being very primitive and not-so-random at times. Of course, I can't confirm that that's what's being used for random item generation without some serious amount of studying the code (which I have no interest in doing), but it seems likely. – Robin Hood↝talk 23:25, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

I noticed how not so random is after trying with another stone, when you do the very same actions you get the same fixed result from something supposed to be random.

I saved in front of the stone and when I was taking it quickly after the load most times the stone was the same, however when I waited seconds between loads and pickups I got much more varied results.--Wizy 00:43, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Sorry Robin, but I'm betting you're wrong. rand() has a predictable sequence, which means it would always give the same stone in the same situations, unless it was also being used for weird stuff like animations. It's more common to just use a timer (ideally a fast-running one) as a PRNG. More importantly though, regardless of what method you're using, if you're picking something from a set you need to understand statistics / probability to genuinely get it right (i.e. not be biased to / against a particular subset), and maybe one programmer in a thousand actually does, if that. - Ali

Nice to see you again. Welcome back!--Ghurhak gro-Demril _{or TAO}^Yes? 19:47, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. :) The page says there are 30 Sigil Stones, so although there's a near-100% chance that 2 of them are much more likely to show up than the others, I don't see any reason why 1 or 2 would be less likely. Or to put that another way: since an overwhelming majority of them are already in a reduced-probability set, the chances of any of them being in a third set with even lower probability are basically nil (other than by intent). Aliana 00:42, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

(←) Hey Ali, glad to see you back!

The Oblivion code uses various wrappers around rand() for most or all of their random number needs as far as I can tell. As you would expect, though, it's seeded with a timer-based function (srand(time64())) most of the time, so it appears fairly random. Some of the functions allow alternate seeds as well, and it looks like a few calls to them are re-seeding at every call with various numbers to increase the apparent randomness. So far as I know, the method used for rand() is known for long repetitions of numbers in a close range and other such anomalies, though as you point out, I'm no statistician, so I'm going entirely on hearsay in terms of what that function's characteristics are. The fact that many programmers just use rand() % x also gives it an uneven distribution in most circumstances. (As an example, assume rand generates 0 to 32767 and you do % 100 on it, you'll get one more chance at numbers between 0 and 67 than you will between 68 and 99.)

But getting back to Oblivion itself, there are various wrappers around rand() in the Obivion code, most of which use variations of x * rand() / 32767, sometimes re-seeding first, sometimes not. I don't see any other random functions there like a Mersenne twister, but it's possible I just haven't found them yet. Pseudo-random number theory isn't my forté, nor was it a priority for me to identify all possible random number generators in the code. But PRNG intricacies aside, the intent, at least, is that all stones would have an equal chance of appearing, and within reason, that's the behaviour I'd expect given the algorithms I see. – Robin Hood↝talk 01:24, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I wandered off track a bit there. I agree that the intent is that they all be equiprobable - I'm just saying I wouldn't be at all suprised to discover that some things had very strong biases unintentionally. (Oddly enough, the sort of re-seeding you're talking about usually hurts a lot more than it helps, since it tends to repeatedly gravitate to specific subsets/regions within the sequence, effectively reducing the periodicity of the PRNG. Not really important in a game though). Aliana 11:06, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

If you think it's not really important in a game, you clearly haven't played much Diablo II, where at a 95% hit probability, you get strings of 5 or more misses in a row on a far too regular basis. :) But that's getting really off-topic. If ever I happen to find out something of significance with the Oblivion code, I'll post back, but I think I've discovered all I'm likely to in the near future, given that I *only* have the IDA code and not the game on my drive at this point. :) – Robin Hood↝talk 22:55, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Deleted Bugs

Deleted two bugs

• All Sigil Stones except the Great Sigil Stone can be duplicated with the scroll duplication trick.

Most items can be duplicated through that glitch, not worth mentioning.

• The Frostcrag Spire Glitch can be exploited to obtain an unlimited amount of leveled Sigil Stones.

Accesing a test cell is the bug, not directly related to sigil stones. --Wizy (Talk/Contribs) 20:39, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Random?

Is it really random? because after a while of reloading (25 or so) shock/fire/frost damage or shield seems to come up more often than anything else... Perhaps it's just me getting tired of chasing after a Chameleon sigil stone? Could someone reassure me either way or tell me another way? Thank you. — Unsigned comment by BlueNutmeg (talk • contribs) at 19:04 on 30 December 2010

Look in the Fire Shield section above. There's a whole discussion on the randomness of it. The gist of it is that from a design perspective, it's supposed to be an equal chance of everything, but it may not always end up that way. In addition to that, the damage effects appear three times more often than most other effects, since they're used on multiple stones. I don't know why you'd be seeing Shield that often, though, other than random luck (or perhaps bad luck, in this case). One way or another, keep trying long enough and you'll get one.

The best thing to do is save a couple of seconds after activating the stone, then when you reload, it only takes a second or two for the stone to appear in your inventory so you can see what you got. – Robin Hood↝talk 23:39, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Sigil Stone during main questline.

Hello, I am playing on the Xbox 360, I am at the part "Aid for Bruma" and have done most of the cities and are on to Bravil.

I have done an Oblivion gate near my Deep Scorn Hollow (Downloadble content) and it was one where you have to hop across lava on either side of this gate to open it from a tower.

I got that done and the Bravil gate is the same way.

I did not do it the same way (went to the opposite tower) and now can not obtain/activate the stone at the top of the middle tower to close the gate.

I need some help to progress wiht the quest.

I know I can skip it, but with this high of level monsters at this part of the game, I am going to need all the help I can get.

67.134.98.146 05:32, 12 January 2011 (UTC) Kunmaru

As a fellow XBox player, I understand how troubling some problems can get without the console for bug-fixing. As with other Stone/scripted items glitches and bugs, the safest and most likely answere to your problem would be to load a previous save file. Alternatively, you could leave the Oblivion gate temporarily, save outside and far away from it, and load a different game to see if the problem occurs with all gates. If the other ones work, try turning of the console, then loading the new save outside the troublesome gate. I have found that scripted items, like stones, can become functional again if the XBox is left to load other files and information. I have had similar problems with Sigil stones, and loading a fresh area, then going back to stone, did seem to fix the hiccup. Saving, then later loading, seems to get rid of the temporary memory of the XBox. Mine somteimes needs time to "clear its head" when in repetitive situations.

Again, my quick steps:

1. Leave the Gate,

2. Save your game.

3. Load a different game, then test a new gate. (check new stone)

4. Check problematic Gate

5. If still a problem, turn the Xbox off, then on after 30 seconds, and play a different (processing and memory-intensive) game (like Halo3, or Forza Motorsport) for half an hour.

6. Turn console off yet again.

7. Turn on after 30 seconds, load the buggy game and test the Sigil stone again.

If still a problem, could you give more specifics on the situation? (quest updates, surroundings, previous actions) I would like to attempt to reproduce this error.

My solutions have worked for my Sigil stone problems before, and improving the randomness of loot lists, but it might be coincidence. - Neural Tempest 21:29, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Fortify intelligence sigil stone

Why is it neccessary to have the fortify intelligence sigil stone? Isn't it worthless since the only effect of intelligence is to provide magicka while there are other stones giving much higher amount of magicka? ( 24 vs 50 )117.4.244.192 13:00, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

For the same reason for wich there are Iron weapons and Fine Iron weapons. Besides, a Fortify Intelligence Descendent Sigil Stone provides higher Magicka than its Fortify Magicka equivalent. (14 vs 10) --Wizy (Talk/Contribs) 17:09, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

I agree with you about the desendent sigil stone but about the iron weapons and fine iron weapons, it should be noted that fine iron weapons are much rarer than iron weapons, it explains their better quality. Sigil stone on the other hand have same appearing rate.117.4.241.249 15:12, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Feather Bug

(moved from the article)

• note that if you use a sigil stone with 125 pts of feather, on 3 or more of your gear, and you then take it of only to put it on a moment later the value of feather of the thried may fall. this can be fixed by taking off all your gear including rings and amulets. and replacing it with some different gear, then wait 24 hours and then take you gear with feather on again.

This has got to be the most obscure, one-off, unlikely-ever-to-happen-again bug ever described. rpeh •T•C•E• 15:21, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

He's half right but all wrong. The feather spell/enchantment has that bug noted as I recall, as I experienced that issue before and couldn't figure out why I couldn't get more than 147 points of feather, when I had previously had much higher. Feather only works if you are carrying items Equal to or greater than the value of feather, otherwise the effects start listing as 0 feather on your spell list. Solution: Reequip when you reach max weight and it should solve itself. Keep doing that as needed to get your desired carrying weight of around 1500 lbs. Higher too if you add a Fort Str spell in. 76.115.250.108 09:44, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Dropping sigil stones

I think I've dropped 4 or 5 sigil stones on the altar in Frostcrag Spire thinking they were lame usable items not enchanting stones.. every one of them vanished into the floor. Are they still down there somewhere? Is there some way to get them back? Pez 01:20, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Quick and cheap solution: load an autosave or some other previous save.

Long answer: Those stones typically freeze in place once dropped, so I'm not sure if they were acting normally to begin with. Since you know they fell through the floor, I think it's a collision issue, similar to Rosethorn Hall's shelving and display cases. At this point, telekinesis won't work, as the floor would block any spell. They are probably floating just under the floor, but possibly lost for good (try listening for them, they sometimes hum). However, if you use the PC version, try looking up the item ID on the stone page, and giving yourself the items through console codes. If you have the Xbox or PS3 version, the only way I can think of getting them back (kind of) is to find a new gate (or five, one for each type of lost stone), save before getting the new stone, and picking them up (and reloading if necessary) to get each type you lost. The scroll-duplication glitch could also help replenish the lost stock, if you just want the stones back for display/record purposes. Cloned stones seem to work fine for enchanting, though.

Yes, it's cheating, but let's not forget, you would be repaying the game glitch for glitch. It robbed you of your loot, so rob it back. Quid Pro Quo, really.

If you can't load a previous save, because it would be too far back, and you closed all oblivion gates, and you're on Xbox or PS3, I can safely say "They're gone". - Neural Tempest 01:55, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

sigil stones

is there a other way to get sigil stones ?? — Unsigned comment by 70.173.94.158 (talk) on 17 July 2011

The only ways to get sigil stones are from doing oblivion gate raids.

If you've finished the main quest, there is no way to get a sigil stone. — Unsigned comment by 174.28.165.101 (talk) on 23 August 2011

Die to get better randomization of stones

I have no way to test this, but I seem to get more variety when I commit suicide in order to reload and try again. I'm on PS3, and it seems to get stuck in cycles. I've gotten the same stone four times in a row on reload, and more often than not it is one of the same five or six stones repeatedly. I've started jumping into the pillar of fire (more out of frustration than anything) to reload and I'm suddenly seeing what appears to be the full spectrum of possible drops. Is there any way to verify this, or am I just crazy?--Beanstyle 08:19, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

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