User talk:Velyanthe/Archive2

This is an archive of past User talk:Velyanthe discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Mar. 01, 2012 - Apr. 30, 2012

Call for helpEdit

I'm sorry for the bothering and for the 'not-so-good-english'. I think I've made a mess uploading 'SR-item-Corundum Ore Veins.jpg' and trying to change it. Can you please delete all the version (essentially 2, but duplicate or more) except the brighter one? Or, if you cannot, tell me who to bother for this situation? I even don't know if this is the correct place where asking for help, but you where so kind to write in my talk page, and you know, no good deed goes unpunished. --Agide 17:38, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

It's not a bother, I'm here to help :)

As Kitkat said on your talk page, you uploaded the images to the same filename. You uploaded them all to SR-item-Corundum Ore Veins.jpg--each new upload replaced the old one, so it's as simple as reverting file changes to fix that. If you ever wish to upload multiple files under similar names, then having SR-item-Corundum Ore Veins 1.jpg, SR-item-Corundum Ore Veins 2.jpg, and SR-item-Corundum Ore Veins 3.jpg, for example, would upload the files to separate pages on the wiki. From there, if you think a delete of one of those pages is needed, you can add {{prod|(Insert deletion reason here)}} to the top of the page. If you think a revert is needed for an image and you are unsure how to do that or what it should be reverted to, or if the image needs some editing, you can add {{CleanImage|(Insert needed info here)}} to the top of the page. What that will do is make it noticeable to other users who have the means to delete files or know how to fix images, and they can handle it from there. You can find some more info on such useful templates here.

But the image file for SR-item-Corundum Ore Veins.jpg is perfectly alright as it is. The first image you uploaded was the darker one, and the lighter ones you uploaded on top of that, so the lighter image is the one that is currently "active"--it will show up if you add SR-item-Corundum Ore Veins.jpg to a page.

Here's what placing the image on a page will make it look like:

Do not worry about 'not-so-good-english', either--you type English quite well, better than some native speakers. --Velyanthe 20:19, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

LinksEdit

Hi Velyanthe. First, just out of curiosity, do you care to explain where your username comes from? Maybe knowing will help me remember it correctly. Second, I thought I'd ask you in case you know: What's the best way to refer to an internal link like this using wiki markup and adding a "label" if that's the right word: http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim:Boethiah%27s_Calling&oldid=900444 ? I know how to do something like [[SR:Skyrim:Boethiah%27s_Calling|Label]], and I know how to refer to an external URL, but not this kind of internal URL. Thanks. --JR^{Talk E-mail} 01:56, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Go have a look at User talk:Corevette789 (last topic). I just finished explaining this to someone there. – Robin Hood↝talk 02:14, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

My username comes from a randomized name that I liked from WoW's name generator thing. Generally the names I use for accounts or game characters are randomized, and I very much like WoW's and Neverwinter Night's name generators.

Thanks Robin Hood, I can never remember that link formatting and I'd've spent ages searching for it. --Velyanthe 02:45, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

In truth, that's actually a bastardized version of it that I made the template handle for convenience when you're modifying a URL. :) The technically correct way to do it is {{Pl|pagename|display text|3=the rest of the URL after the page name}}. Having to put the "3=" in all the time and insert the text to display in the middle of the URL was really unintuitive, which is why I changed it. You'll still occasionally come across something from the Special Pages that has to be done the correct way, but the template handles all the most common types of links. – Robin Hood↝talk 04:24, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Congrats!Edit

Congrats on making it onto the Top 50! I'll catch up at some point! ?• JA^Talk 19:11, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! I was wondering when I'd get up there... and I haven't even been here three months yet, dang. --Velyanthe 20:10, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Congrats on your 2,000th edit! ?• JA^Talk 06:37, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

About the Ebony Blade thingEdit

So I figured I'd kind of give a bit of background information on the controversy involving the "Suggested Kills" section. WARNING: tl;dr ahead.

I actually wrote that section on the page for the Whispering Door quest, which initially contained Pavo Attius, Lucan Valerus, and Carlotta Valencia. Someone else added Narfi, which I was fine with, since it kept with the format of the other entries. I put it on the Whispering Door page because at the time of writing, there was no individual page for the Skyrim incarnation of the Ebony Blade. After one was created, it was suggested that it be moved to the Ebony Blade page, which, again, I was fine with. I had no idea when I wrote it that it would cause so much controversy, though I suppose I should have expected it.

Next, I'll give a summary of my opposition to those two guys' suggestions here, since the way the responses are interspersed throughout each other's comments (as well as the sheer length of the section) makes it a pain to read. My main problem with the new incarnation of the section was that it listed NPC's without explaining why they were being suggested, and without explanations of how they could be made friendly (and thus be eligible candidates in the first place), something that all the entries in the original section did. I restored the section as it was when it originally came from the Whispering Door page, which I felt was justified because it was more descriptive. Then came the huge discussion of what does and doesn't belong, which is where things really began to get hairy.

Obviously, as the person who originally wrote the section, I had very clear (though perhaps rather self-entitled) ideas about what should and shouldn't go in there. These people had different ideas about who to add, which I didn't like because most of them didn't meet my criteria. I realize now that even though I wrote the section with an intended purpose, that doesn't make me the sole judge of what it should entail. To my credit, I do feel that some of my reasons for opposing their suggestions were objectively good; since Ondolemar is always surrounded by Thalmor and other guards, and is a capable fighter in his own right, there's really no way to attack him without incurring a bounty and/or getting killed, making it hard to recommend him over a weakling like Narfi, who doesn't have his own escort. Also, the ones they suggested that I did find agreeable, I made sure to let them know that they were okay, as long as they listed the reasons they were being suggested as kills and how to make them eligible through raising their dispositions, since being descriptive was the whole reason I restored the old section.

After some thought, I've realized that the things that make someone a good kill for somebody don't necessarily make them good for somebody else. In hindsight, it seems obvious that an opinion-based section like that would only invite edit wars, and now I kind of regret writing it in the first place. Since this site is supposed to provide facts, I think it seems more appropriate to just leave a nonspecific suggestion in the notes section as to what might make somebody a good kill rather than keeping a whole section of specifics.

I looked over that sandbox, and if you support its addition to the page, I won't gripe about it, but as it is now, it's incredibly non-descriptive, which was the major problem in the first place that made me reinstate the original section. Again, in the interest of keeping things factual and free from edit wars, I think it would be better not to suggest any kills at all, at least not on the main page. Maybe we could make a sub-page for the Ebony Blade listing potential candidates and how highly they are recommended?

ThuumofReason 22:59, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

As said, I do prefer the way you've written it over the list; I'd just like more opinions.

I don't see how it is less descriptive than necessary, but perhaps your criteria for "good to kill" is more than mine. What I look for in that list is people whose deaths will not affect the game or will affect it only minimally; as such, a simple statement saying "this will cause x to take over the store" is all that is necessary, if we add the meaning of the list to the top (little to no effect on the game). Names of people whose deaths will do nothing... what details, then, are you looking for?

As for those with related quests, the person looking at the page should then look at the NPC or quest page in order to figure out the consequences of their actions, and that could be added under the header. I do not see why it would be important to add quest-related details, though, unless the deaths cause a huge change in the game (such as killing Astrid).

With Ondolemar, that's a matter of difficulty. I do not think that only easy kills should be included, since views will vary on whether or not players want a challenge.

Note that I am unfamiliar with many of the quest suggested kills and am not going to check their pages, so if any of them do make an effect on the game that is not noted, I am unaware.

What you suggest with a subpage is a good idea. I would not include a "how highly they are recommended" part to it due to that being based on personal opinion--we want criteria to be met, but we don't want to rank them after that except, perhaps, for difficulty.

I think you should suggest such on the talk page (or direct them here). I'd like more opinions on a subpage. --Velyanthe 23:29, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

I think Suggested Kills should have two categories:

1) some (possibly all on special page) people who would die during some quest (maybe subsections who you must kill in order to complete quests and who will scriptedly die even without any of your actions)

2) some people that you can kill with little or none consequences on gameplay (someone takes their shops etc.) - this category is helpful for players who don´t want to do quests mentioned above but want their Ebony Blade charged quickly and easily (example is my idea about wood/crops/ores people)--Luke the Hero 13:30, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Categories would be an excellent idea, but I think that, if so, it should be taken to the Community Portal to figure out whether it's necessary and what the distinctions between important vs unimportant would be. Personally, I would find it useful (who can I kill as an assassin without ruining my game?). For those who die during quests and those who are killed during quests, unless there's a tag for that in the CK (which I doubt), that'll be a pain to do. Possibly worth it, but a pain. --Velyanthe 15:06, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Your arrogance simply astounds me, to suggest that the talk page was too long and then write an essay on what your opions are, then too jump up what you have done is disgusting, and I am fed up of it. You opposed all of our suggestions no matter the supporting argument and you have obviously not looked at my sandbox because your statement on this is illogical and rude, it follows all of your 'guidelines', name, how to befriend and why they are suggested. A ranking system cannot work because it can only be opinion based. Ondolomar is there because some people might be prepared to kill all thalmor no matter the consequences. It is time to stop critisizing and think of something useful. You were the first poster of the suggestions but that does not give you the final say, and neither do I have final say. --The Silencer 16:20, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

The talk page is getting clogged up and so is the recent changes page by some unimportant comments. So if you could please only write when necessary rather than to simply criticize, then I'm sure myself and other patrollers would appreciate it. Bring this discussion to a close and move on to something more constructive, thank you. Manic 16:28, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

I hope you are not aiming that at me. I have the right to defend myself against unmitigated and harmful attacks on my contributions. I have tried to have a reasoned discussion with this user and all he does is attack and criticise, your patrolling is not helpful if you aim to stop discussions taking place. --The Silencer 16:32, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Silencer, can you calm down a little bit? I mentioned the issues you now mention and Thuum has not yet had the chance to answer them. There is no need for drama here, it gets us nowhere. Please provide constructive feedback and ignore whatever you feel to be harmful attacks; I have been looking forward to your opinions, considering how involved you were in the original discussion. --Velyanthe 16:35, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Having awaited Thuums response and seeing as the account was active for 1hour on the 20th and 2hours on the 21st, I can only assume that there is confusion over my input. As Velyanthe kindly pointed out the issues that I mentioned had already been put to Thuum. I have no further points to add at this time and so the stage is Thuums. The Silencer 03:35, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Well, while there are certainly some comments I've made on this site in the past that I might consider inflammatory, the comments on this page aren't among them. The post was made on this page, along with the suggestion about the subpage, to show that I am willing to make a compromise in good faith. My main concern at this point is about the section being on the main page. If everyone agrees to the suggested kills bit being a subpage for Ebony Blade, rather than on the main page, I would be willing to accept anything listed on said subpage. Furthermore, I feel that categorizing into practical kills and quest kills would work better on a subpage, since that kind of detail seems more appropriate on a page made specifically for the purpose of listing kills, than for the page describing the weapon itself. In other words, I completely agree with Luke's proposed idea of categorizing if it can stay on a subpage, since that makes it more organized, but I feel that doing that on the main page would simply make the page a bit too lengthy. The ranking bit was only a suggestion, and since it seems we all agree that it's not a good idea, let's forget all about it. Does that answer your questions? ThuumofReason 14:11, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

About my portion: I would rather see the list on main page but I could probably live with separate subpage properly mentioned and linked with main page. --Luke the Hero 14:40, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, the way that would probably work is, there would be something either at the top of the page or at the bottom of the main section in italics along the lines of "This article is about the weapon. For more information on powering up the Ebony Blade, see <link to subpage>" ThuumofReason 15:53, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Subpage sounds good to me, looks like the thing everyone can agree on. --Velyanthe 20:04, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

ShadowmarksEdit

I just added a |shadowmark= option to the {{Place Summary}} template and then created a Task suggesting that those marks could be listed on all the location pages. Right after that (of course!), I noticed your sandbox, which made me think that you might be interested in following up on the idea. If not, no problems; just wanted to let you know about it. On the other hand, if you had any fancy ideas about better ways to add the info to the place pages, and would like me to tweak what I've done to the Place Summary, let me know! --Nephele^Talk 23:22, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for mentioning it, I will get to work on that. I haven't got any fancy ideas; looks good to me! --Velyanthe 23:42, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

I do have one question: Is it possible to note multiple shadowmarks in the summary? --Velyanthe 23:59, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Should note of the location of the shadowmark be taken off the modified pages? --The Silencer 00:19, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

The task page says to note the mark in the summary and then the location/reason/loot in the Notes, so no, it should not be removed. --Velyanthe 00:21, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

OK, up to four shadowmarks can now be done in one summary (|shadowmark2, etc.). One other implication of my recent tweaks is that if you want to actually show the shadowmark icon in the note, it's now pretty easy to do, too. For example, {{Shadowmark|empty}}. I don't know whether or not that's going to be overkill.

As for infobox and notes, my feeling was that all that should go in the infobox is what type of shadowmark -- since it is just a brief summary of the place. However, readers seeing the shadowmark in the infobox are likely to want to then find it for themselves, which means more detailed information is also needed, and therefore a note is needed, too. Unless there are other ideas/thoughts.... --Nephele^Talk 00:49, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

It was just a thought. I was thinking of reviewing whiterun's pages, locations, npcs, etc, and wanted clarification before starting. --The Silencer 00:53, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

PeriodsEdit

Just an FYI, but if you want to add periods to the descriptions, we can do it manually (and in one edit) to {{Quest Header}}. I can do that here soon. elliot (talk) 02:53, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Ah, I wondered if that was possible. Yes, that would be awesome. --Velyanthe 02:54, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

I was wondering if we wanted to do it manually or not. Looking at a somewhat out-of-date copy of all the quest descriptions, I don't think this is a good idea. There are lots of them that end with exclamation points and question marks, and a few more that end with other oddball characters. Some even have a period, but it's inside a link. Those should probably be fixed, mind you, but this gives you an idea of what we're dealing with. Plus, of course, there's the time you have to take to parse out the last character and decide if it's appropriate to add a period or not. And if we have a new character that needs to be accounted for later on, then someone has to wade through the template to figure out where to add it.

All in all, I'm thinking the best bet is to just generate a list of which descriptions don't end in a period (which I can do fairly easily), then handle it manually. – Robin Hood↝talk 06:05, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

It would probably be best to generate a list of everything descriptions end in. With that, we can determine what would be the more logical path to take. And the template solution is extremely easy, so I am not sure that should be a factor when deciding. elliot (talk) 16:26, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

While it's easy to implement ({{#switch:{{#sub:{{{description|.}}}|-1|1}}|!|?|…|.=|.}}, I think), we should try to avoid parsing as much as possible on pages that are hit frequently. That said, it's a pretty minimal hit, but then again, there aren't all that many that need to be fixed, either. (Yeah, okay, it's not trivial, but it's not like 500 or something.) Here's what it looks like:

Last Char	Add .?	Count
.	N	1348
!	N	17
?	N	22
	N	1
	M	4
a-z	Y	122
"	Y	1
]	Y	29

)Includes things like "(radiant)" and "(repeatable)". Some have periods before them, some don't.

…This is a single character, not three periods.

In short, we're looking at 152 pages that would need changing, and 1388 that don't. If we don't wanna do those by-hand, and I can understand why we wouldn't, the bot could do it quite easily. The drawback, of course, is that the bot is a one-shot deal, where template modifications are long-term. I'm a little ambivalent at this point. (Oh, and apparently Jak's being a keener and doing a bunch of these right now, so the number that need changed is going down even as I type. :Þ) – Robin Hood↝talk 08:40, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

I just did 90 of those, so at this point there's no real reason to bother with a bot. A template modification might still be useful, and if you feel like it then go ahead and implement it, but it's not really necessary. And I apologize for flooding the Recent Changes - I waited until 1am PST to start up, but it still made patrolling anything during that time pretty awful. ?• JA^Talk 08:53, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Some of those 90 overlapped with the bot reading the pages, so it's impossible to say exactly how many are left without re-running the bot, but not many overlapped, so we're probably looking at around 70 left, most of them in Shadowkey and a good chunk in TR3, and very few (if any) in Skyrim. – Robin Hood↝talk 09:02, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

WelcomeEdit

Thanks for the warm welcome! PJ 10:44, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

You're very welcome! :) --Velyanthe 15:05, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Fun with Grammar: Compound Modifiers (Compound Adjectives)Edit

Dearest Velyanthe: In this edit, you changed "randomly-enchanted weapon" to "randomly enchanted weapon". To the best of my knowledge, there is a mix of opinions and practices by experts, style guides, publishers, etc., with respect to such "compound modifiers". The trend is toward not hyphenating, unless it is necessary to avoid ambiguity. For example, almost no one would write "a well educated person", because it could potentially be read as describing a person who is both well and educated. Some such constructions have become "set" to include hyphens and are hyphenated in specialized dictionaries: An open-minded person vs. open minded person.

To my mind, "randomly-enchanted [noun]" is easier for a reader to correctly process, so I have a slight preference toward it. There is an opinion supporting hyphens between [adv or adj] and [past participle functioning as an adjective] here [1]. And there is a statement that such hyphens should be avoided here [2] (search for "Left-hand components of a compound modifier)".

I think that both are ok, so I invite you to take a second look. If you want to keep it without the hyphen, you should make the same kind of change to "randomly-enchanted bow", which appears in the sentence following that instant to this discussion. --JR^{Talk E-mail} 02:39, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Was that just a really long way of saying "you made this inconsistent"? :P

I'm going to need to reread that in the morning, I am not quite with it at the moment. It looks as if there is no need for that hyphen, though--both forms create the same meaning. A randomly enchanted weapon is the same as a randomly-enchanted weapon; the enchantment is random, as you cannot have a randomly weapon. Vely^{►Talk►Email} 03:27, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Was that just a really long way of saying "you made this inconsistent"?

I suppose you could put it that way...IF you prefer concise language that communicates the heart of the matter at hand readily, precisely, without undue wordiness, prolix, turgidity, grandiloquence, and pomposity. I'm thinking of changing it to: "A weapon that was enchanted, albeit not in a manner lacking a specifically determined design or plan." --JR^{Talk E-mail} 03:19, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks!Edit

Hey, thanks for the fix on the Scouts-Many-Marshes page. I knew something should be done, but wasn't quite sure what to do with it.Alwaysburning 18:26, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Not a problem. :) Vely^{►Talk►Email} 18:27, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

A Cookie for You!Edit

You have been given a cookie! Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say: Thanks for all the help on the Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind for Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim players! Enjoy the cookie - was trying to find a way to give you some milk, but to no avail.— Unsigned comment by DextroWombat (talk • contribs) at 19:24 on April 10, 2012

Thanks! :) Vely^{►Talk►Email} 23:28, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Nord ArmorEdit

Okay, I give up: where else can you find it? (I've been trying to think of another place for an hour, and I'm still drawing a blank). Glory of the Dead enemies wear it, but don't leave lootable corpses. Tons of places (Forsaken Cave, Volunruud, and plenty more) have helms and boots, but not the other two pieces. I'm guessing Skuldafn or Labyrinthian, since I've only done those a couple of times, but I can't check those with this char right now. Aliana 01:50, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

I didn't double-check with the CK; I googled it, and the first link was to that other wiki. I'll check it now to verify. Vely^{►Talk►Email} 01:52, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

The other wiki (why did you make me go there) info supports the argument that as a rare pice of guaranteed armor it is noteworthy, even if it can be forged. The Silencer has spoken 01:59, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Boots: ShriekwindBastionExterior02, 2 zones in ForsakenCave

Cuirass: QAArmorContainer (random)

Gauntlets: QAArmorContainer, Labrynthian

Helm: Lots of places

QAArmorContainer is only in the cell QASmoke, though I don't know where that cell is. They can all be found in outfits on some draugr and the Southfringe boss, though I'm uncertain how outfits work... Checking with Astrid, it appears as though outfits are probably part of the inventory (possibly randomly?), as if you kill her in the shack she drops her set of armor, doesn't she? Vely^{►Talk►Email} 02:13, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

(ec) Thanks. "Kjenstag Ruins, kill a ghost that appears between 8pm and 4am" - I don't feel too bad about missing something that perverse, since I've never even seen that ghost with any char: sheer-luck encounters suck. At least it wasn't something like "right on the floor in front of you when you enter <Ruin X>, dummy". :)

In return: QASmoke isn't an in-game cell at all. It's a test area with every single item in the game, only accessible via the console. Aliana 02:50, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

I am 99% sure its never been dropped, outfits could be their appearance in ragged armor. These are guaranteed locations. Fur Helmets are mentioned on location pages and have never been removed. The Silencer has spoken 02:22, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

(←) I just checked in-game by spawning Bashnag at my location, and yes, he did definitely drop the cuirass piece. No other pieces with it. Vely^{►Talk►Email} 02:40, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Also, Silencer, I'm uncertain of your intent with the Fur Helmet point. Yes, those are guaranteed locations that I listed, as none of them exist in leveled or random lists, and some Fur Helmets have guaranteed locations, but I don't see the relation. As for the outfits, I checked via the CK in the "Use Info" for the armor pieces and then checked the "Use Info" of the outfits--the pieces are used by the outfits, which are used by the corresponding NPCs, so it's not simply a lookalike. Vely^{►Talk►Email} 02:43, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

I meant by dropped by non-unique Draugr, as Aela wears three pieces as well. The note for the Fur Helmets in White River Watch is Two Fur Helmets can be found in the cave on tables. is very similar to what Aliana added. The Silencer has spoken 02:58, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

The difference is having a place page versus a quest page. I don't know how notable the Ancient Draugr Armor would be though... probably not very, since various unnamed draugr can drop it, so notable on the place page but not the quest page. Vely^{►Talk►Email} 03:00, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

-->(Vandalism)Edit

Is freaking hilarious i cracked up at the vandalism of the skyrim dark brotherhood quest page.You guys sure are good catchers of trolls but oh my gosh,trolls are creative that and oblivion the gravefinder quest vandalism is just gold! I find it funny but unacceptable, hahaha oh gosh just hilarious good work though. Trolls will be trolls and ill be cracking up. — Unsigned comment by 99.169.161.243 (talk) at 20:41 on April 13, 2012

It's quite alright to be amused at vandalism, just as long as you don't contribute to it and it gets as soon as possible. However, I would ask that if you would like to discuss the amusing aspects of vandalism you head over to the forums or contact someone willing to chat via email (though you may need an account for that) or some other private, non-wiki channel. Talk pages on the wiki are more geared towards wiki business than casual chatting such as this. Vely^{►Talk►Email} 00:50, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

TalkEdit

Vely, the talk link with your signature doesn't seem to be working (I stole a simplified version) but I can't see what's wrong. The Silencer has spoken^Talk 18:33, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Are you looking at his signature on his talk page? — Kimi the Elf ^{(talk | contribs)} 18:35, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes, Oh dear. The Silencer has spoken^Talk 18:39, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Nice catchEdit

You actually made me laugh out loud. Thanks. I'm gonna go play some more Skryrim. —SkoomaManiac ^{Talk ♫ Contribs} 01:28, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

I figured you'd appreciate the play on words :) May you skry successfully!

I'd also like to point out that you said "Oblivion and her expansions"; I didn't change her to its because I wasn't sure of your intent, though. Vely^{►Talk►Email} 01:39, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Naturally, I had to look. Love the edit summary! – Robin Hood↝talk 02:15, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

There's so many times where I wish I could 'Like' an edit summary as if it was a facebook status... ABCface^◥ 02:47, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

The "her" was intentional. Oblivion is too awesome not to have a sex. —SkoomaManiac ^{Talk ♫ Contribs} 18:53, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Response to your post on Anathema talkEdit

Hi, I'm fairly new, only been on for about a month but have done a few minor edits. I've read the directions on formating posts, etc. when I joined.

Eshe had posted a message on my talk page - not the nicest one, but something to the effect of having to fix a ton of my posts due to formating problems. The only one she mentioned was signing pages, so that's not a problem - I won't sign anything. But besides that, I don't know what else was wrong. So I went to her talk page to ask her, and she's left the site? She had posted the message to me this morning I think, so maybe the tone was related to why she left (I'm guessing you saw the bit on her page about drama or something?) So I was not going to take her post to heart.

But now that I look through my Contributions, it looks like she removed ALL the changes I made! Why is that? I had found errors on the site that had cost me hours when I followed the wrong directions in the game, so I corrected them, and now they are all changed back completely or rewritten. I teach web design to college students, so when I say "rewritten" it is not because of grammar or coding problems on my end. Hours of work just removed because she didn't like the signature at the end?

Thanks for offering to help. I'll make sure to swing any questions your way, but am I just going to be wasting my time on this site, having all edits rewritten? Its very upsetting. --Anathema 01:50, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

For future reference, you needn't post replies to discussions started on your talk page on others' talk pages--it's common practice to continue the discussion on the page it was started on.

Signing talk pages, such as this one, should be done, just not actual articles. The message she gave you was just a reminder after ABCFace's message, since if you do so repeatedly it's nice to remind people. Eshe's tone in the message on your page was just a quick reminder, not tense or upset at all.

Your edit here contained information that was already on the page, as indicated by Eshe's edit summary. Here, she did not undo all of your contributions; rather, she shortened their wordiness and combined two of the same that you added. Here, all that was changed was your signature was removed from the page and your contribution was de-italicized. The same was done for a couple more of your contributions, so they were hardly altered.

Remember the notice underneath the edit box: "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then don't submit it here." All of your contributions have been altered, but not all have been removed. The content that you contribute is actually valuable, but it will likely be altered at some point or another--most of my edits have probably been altered, too. It takes a while, but eventually you get used to preferred wording and formatting.

There's a bit of drama on the site concerning some administrators and ex-administrators is all. Vely^{►Talk►Email} 02:35, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Vely - But I actually had gone back in today and made my changes again in most cases (minus the signature). Folgunthur was the only one I hadn't gotten to.

The Folgunthur edit that you mentioned, where I had added a mention of a hidden chest, it was one of two in that location. The first chest had been mentioned already, the second one that I found was in a different location in that ruin. I'd added it because I was using that article to work through that ruin, and it missed this.--Anathema 03:37, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Hey Anathema. I tried to respond to you on Eshe's page, but I was behind the times, it seems, and didn't notice at first that Vely had already responded. If you've found a second chest that's not mentioned on the page, it should definitely be added. The only one I see you having tried to add, though, is the one behind the Ivory Claw door, which is already mentioned in Zone 2. – Robin Hood↝talk 05:57, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Also, Anathema, if someone keeps altering content in a way that you don't agree with, feel free to bring it up on the article's talk page. This'll lead to consensus on how to format it and help avoid an edit war. Vely^{►Talk►Email} 20:31, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Robinhood and Vely - I'm just learning the ropes and the edits of my changes just struck me funny at the time because there were so many at once. But I've read through my watchlist and seen how often people make changes to everything, so really not a big deal. But I'll really try not to step on toes :} and help with what I can. I assume you two would be the people to ask questions too? I was wondering, for posting images -screenshots of the game, the directions said to turn off everything so you just have the environment and not the menus and controls in the shot, but I can't find how to turn off that "crosshair" or whatever it's called that is in the middle of the window. I looked all through the control settings, and looked online but can't find how to. Do you know how to turn that off? I have Photoshop so can use that to remove it, but would rather save time. Thanks for your help, have a good one!--Anathema 05:34, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

You can turn of the crosshairs under "settings" > "display" uncheck the box. — Kimi the Elf ^{(talk | contribs)} 05:40, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Also, if you'd like to remove the compass and the health/magicka/fatigue bars at the bottom (if they're showing up for any reason), you can open the console (usually done by pressing the tilde or backwards apostrophe key, which is ` or ~) and type in tm. You'd also have to do that again to bring back everything, too.

Generally, mentors would be the ones to ask about anything, though administrators and patrollers are also very familiar with the wiki, along with some other users not in any lists. If they don't know the answer, they can direct you to someone who does. Vely^{►Talk►Email} 19:30, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Vely -
I use the console a lot, so I'll give that a try. Speaking of - are we allowed to mention console cheats if they would be helpful in a specific quest or location? For example, using tcl console cheat to be able to "fly" to get an item from a very hard to get to place, if the player doesn't have that whirlwind shout or telekinesis?--Anathema 02:22, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

In a word, no. The only time console cheats are allowed on most articles is if they're necessary to work around a bug. There have been very rare exceptions to that previously, like Oblivion's Vampirism Console Commands, but those are generally decided on on a case-by-case basis. – Robin Hood↝talk 09:11, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

If it's accessible by non-cheating in-game means, then no, it shouldn't be noted. If it's a very unique place and the in-game means to reach it are hard to come by or rather rare, then that would get some more consideration to being added. As Kagrenzel has an entrance that is easy to reach that's not in Stony Creek Cave, it really shouldn't be noted. Vely^{►Talk►Email} 16:11, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

QuotesEdit

Hey Velyanthe, I know you have your quotes set up nicely, but Elliot told me about another setup that you don't have to define the number of quotes at all. If you'd prefer it, I'll change it over for you, but if you're okay with your current setup then that's fine too. • JA^Talk 03:11, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

That would prevent having to update the number every now and then, so sure! Vely^{►Talk►Email} 19:23, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Okay, there you go. I also marked /QuoteGenerator for deletion, since it's no longer needed. The main change is that instead of looking for <br> it looks for |, meaning you can use <br>s in the actual quote. I must say, though, your workaround of colored text was clever. • JA^Talk 19:39, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

City or LocationEdit

I was going through Ivarsteads citizens and adding their houses and locations, but a quick look at oblivions NPCs outside cities shows a huge inconsistancy between Location and Home City for the town. An example is Hackdirt, where three have Home City, and two have Location. The Silencer has spoken^Talk 02:20, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

I don't think city has been used yet in the Skyrim namespace (at least, not that I've seen), but for OB, I'm not sure whether towns should count as cities. You'd have to ask someone who's more familiar with the OB namespace. Or, you could check other towns and see whether they use that parameter or the loc one. Vely^{►Talk►Email} 02:30, 29 April 2012 (UTC)