Skyrim talk:Block/Archive 1

This is an archive of past Skyrim talk:Block discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Trainers

Anyone know who/where are they 184.88.37.235 03:48, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

I was levelling up 1 point per minute just by holding my shield up as a giant attacked me.

Skills Layout for Skyrim

I've put this together as a starting point for the layout of all the Skyrim skill pages. Obviously the icon will end up being replaced by the Skyrim icon, but I think the page looks better with an Oblivion icon than with no icon at all.

As for the Skill Perks table, it doesn't represent the tree aspect of the skill perks. But it seems that we'll probably want to end up having an image of the "constellation" for each skill, in which case that constellation image will be the most effective way of displaying the relationship between the perks. Unless someone has a better idea of how to organize the table. --Nephele^Talk 21:51, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

I think something along the lines of wikipedia:Template:Location map with the constellation as the background would work. It would be too hard trying to replicate it with wiki formatting. elliot (talk) 21:54, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes, adapting a template like that could work well for the image. To clarify, though, I think we'll want both an image and a table -- especially considering that eventually we'll need to document details such as RefIDs for each perk. --Nephele^Talk 23:44, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

No problem, I'll work on something here in the coming days. I'll try to come up with a style, and, if appropriate, a template. elliot (talk) 01:26, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

(←) I've started trying to assemble a template. It still needs a lot more work -- including some things, such as label positioning, that are apparently working differently on UESP than wikipedia (probably due to CSS differences). But just to demonstrate the direction I'm going in, here's the Block tree with just two of the perks labelled:

Shield Wall

Deflect Arrows

Riposte

Elemental Protection

Quick Reflexes

Power Bash

Deadly Bash

Bash Disarm

Shield Charge

Block/Archive 1 Perk Tree

OK, I've got the templates working a bit more nicely, so I've gone ahead and filled in the Block tree. One peculiarity is that this perk tree has apparently changed between the demo video and more recent versions of the game. Since the image I'm using is taken from the demo video, I've stuck with the demo video perk names.

Does this look like a useful way of handling the perk tree? --Nephele^Talk 04:09, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Better than what we have right now. We need something to illustrate the perk tree, and this is the best (and only) thing anyone has proposed. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 04:11, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Actually, if it wouldn't be to much of a headache, would it be possible to get these to display information relating to the perk when hovered over? I wouldn't know if that can be done, but I think it would be extremely useful.--AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 04:18, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Nephele's already done that. It's the mark_alt parameter above. Also, I think that this might be better for the "star placement". The yellow is a little clashing. And we might want to just make the words white, rather than having another background color. elliot (talk) 16:30, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I see it now. Strange, it wasn't doing that earlier. Problem on my end I guess. Thanks for pointing that out. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 16:32, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

(←) That looks really, really good. I think we'll want images of the completed constellation or the lines don't show up very well, but apart from that it's fantastic. I was imagining we'd have to mess about with {{Chart}} and I'm really glad to see that isn't the case. rpeh •T•C•E• 17:42, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

All right, I'm fairly certain I'm going insane. They're giant white blocks on the image now, connecting to the labels (and surrounding the markers). --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 17:46, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Same here --Ijiero 17:48, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

To fix the white boxes, hit Ctrl+F5 (or whatever your browser uses to do a hard refresh). It's a CSS issue that I fixed last night, plus it seems that the server problems are making the old CSS resurface unexpectedly.

As for tweaks, it's easy to change the marker color, and I was looking into changing the text color last night when the servers went down. I agree that the image is preliminary. Once we can upload images again, I have a handful of photoshopped perk trees where I've brightened the stars and lines. --Nephele^Talk 18:51, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

That looks awesome, Nephele, although I liked it slightly better with the yellow dots – white dots tend to blur out a little, especially if the background is bright. Looking forward to see your new custom-made backgrounds. This is definitely a good solution! --Krusty 19:10, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

OK, new image. The last revision showed white text and white dots; on this one I went all yellow. The image is still far from final quality -- but I didn't want to waste too much time in photoshop on images that will only be used for a week. I agree that light-color text works better, especially because the backgrounds were covering up the lines. I think I slightly prefer yellow over white, probably because then the text is a different color than the lines. The colors may just be personal preference, but in any case they can be tweaked easily enough in the future.

I also added descriptions (where currently available) to the popup text. I think there is a limit to how long the popup text can be, but so far I don't seem to be hitting it.

I'll upload the other six perk tree pictures I have and add them to their pages. I took some liberties with the images to make them match the perk info we have. Several other skills could be done, too, but those images need even more changes done. --Nephele^Talk 22:57, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

The constellations images look pretty good, but what about something more wiki-ish, like:

Novice Locks

Apprentice Locks (25)

Quick Hands (40)

Wax Key (50)

Adept Locks (50)

Golden Touch (60)

Treasure Hunter (70)

Expert Locks (75)

Locksmith (80)

Unbreakable (100)

Master Locks (100)

Addps4cat 02:41, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

It would be good to add something like that to Lockpicking as a placeholder, but once we're able to get a constellation image I think we'll want to switch over to the image. Lockpicking is probably somewhat of an exception in that it's even possible to do it in a chart format -- other cases, such as Smithing, Restoration, or Two-handed would be really tough to do that way. I'd imagine you'd have to dramatically reorganize the layout, at which point readers are likely to be confused by seeing a layout that looks completely different from the one they see in game. --Nephele^Talk 02:58, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Also, I'd been about to post something explaining why I changed your Lockpicking table layout. One problem is that indenting the columns messes up the sorting. But more importantly, I did it for consistency with the other skill pages. As with the charts, most of the other perk trees can't easily be represented by simply indenting a few of the perks. If you can come up with something that will work in general, it would be great to adopt it for all the skill tables. But otherwise I don't think it's worth having just one table use a different layout. --Nephele^Talk 02:58, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

One thing that you reverted in mine was separating the perk requirements from the skill requirements. The problem with merging them into one column is that now, the sorting functions no longer make any sense. For instance, if you sort the table for the Block article, Riposte gets put at the top.

What do you think about separating all of the skill tables into skill requirements and perk requirements? Another advantage is that you can remove the name of the skill from that column. So instead of saying 30 Block, just say 30, as it can be assumed that we are talking about Block. Addps4cat 04:44, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

I Agree. To me it Makes sense to have one column for The requisite skill level and one for the prerequisite perks. Gugugan 06:06, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

I took a shot at doing one for a more complicated tree like Two-handed. What about something like this?:

Barbarian

Limbsplitter (30)

Champion's stance (20)

Deep Wounds (30)

Skullcrusher (30)

Devasting Blow (50)

Greater Critical Charge (50)

Sweep (70)

Warmaster (100)

Addps4cat 04:44, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

(←) I think having the image and chart would be a little overkill, and the consensus has been for the image mark. Now, the {{#define:text_color|#FFFFFF}}{{#define:mark_width|12}}{{#define:width|300}}{{#define:mark_color|White}} bit might confuse some people, so maybe we should turn that into a tiny template? Or do you just want to merge the two? I haven't tested the compatibility since we are using two templates, but I think it might be best if they to get that off of pages. elliot (talk) 04:48, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Merging the two requirements into one column has no negative effect on sorting. The only reason why Riposte currently ends up at the top when you sort is because we don't have a skill requirement for that perk (because it probably won't exist in the final version of the game). Therefore, it's being sorted as if the skill is 0 -- which is the same thing that would happen if the skill and perk requirements were put into separate cells (see this version of the page). The main reason I can think of for putting the perk requirement in a separate column would be if there was reason to sort by perk requirement, but I don't see how that would be useful (plus it wouldn't really work properly for perkA or perkB cases).

As for deleting the skill name, even as it stands, the skill name could technically be removed from the requirements column -- it's not necessary in terms of sorting or any other table functionality. However, I think having it there eliminates the potential for ambiguity.

I'm not sure what advantage the chart version of the perk table provides over the image version. The only thing I'm coming up with is that a background image isn't needed for the chart version. On the other hand, I think the image version is going to be easier for wiki editors to create/edit/maintain, plus it provides more information (via the hover text). I don't see how the chart version is more wiki-ish -- all of the text content of the image version is provided via wiki text, so any editor can easily fix typos or factual errors included in the image version. Am I missing something here?

Elliot: unfortunately, the defines can't be done through a template. See Template talk:Perk Tree for a partial explanation. "Partial" because it doesn't directly address the separate template question, but the same factors make a separate template not work. A separate template isn't in the calling tree for Perk Tree or Image Mark, so parameters set there have no effect. I explicitly tested it just to be sure (in the subsThequently-deleted 'Perk Tree Setup' template). I haven't been able to come up with any good alternatives to the #defines, but maybe I've overlooked something. --Nephele^Talk 05:35, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Update: I was wrong, the defines can be done through a template -- specifically Template:Perk Tree Setup. I'd forgotten about one of our template functions ({{#return}}). I'm switching things over to the template right now. --Nephele^Talk 16:05, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Here's an idea: how about I make some nice, vector constellation paths to complement the map format instead of relying on screenshots? Something about the current design just looks strange with the wiki's aesthetic, in my opinion. The design would be similar to the skill icons I've done, just utilizing different shades of beige and maybe one color for the pogs indicative of the skill's category (blue for magic, for example). StoneFrog 23:21, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, StoneFrog, I hadn't even noticed your comment here until now... a few other things have been going on ;) Without seeing an example, it's hard to be completely sure, but it sounds like a good idea. I thought that screenshots would be the easiest way to generate the images, but if you'd prefer to use a different method, that's fine. I'd mainly like to make sure that the constellation layout ends up matching that seen in game, so that readers find it as easy as possible to go back and forth between the game and the site. I know that most of the pre-release images I uploaded don't even live up to that standard -- so any progress towards replacing the images, and creating a complete set would be incredibly welcome.

On another subject -- and the reason why I pulled up this talk page in the first place -- I've just experimenting with changing the layout of a couple of the perk tables, and figured I'd explain here since this became the de facto skill layout discussion topic. I've noticed lots of edits where people change entries in the "Perk Req." column to match the "Perk" column. The number of such edits puzzled me, until I saw this edit, where someone changed around the description entries, and had an "Aha!" moment. I think what's happening is people aren't even bothering to look at the table headers, and are just reading the column closest to the description (namely Perk Req), and assuming that column provides the perk name. And if a few dozen people are bothering to edit the skill pages because of their misunderstanding, it probably means thousands of other readers are experiencing the same problem.

The upshot is that it looks like we need to put the Description column and Perk column as close to each other as possible. The new order I've tried is Perk - Description - ID - Skill Req. - Perk Req. That order also puts the Perk Req column nearly as far away as possible from the Description column. It's a bit strange having the ID come after the Description, but I think it's necessary given the apparent problems readers are having. (It would be nice to merge the ID into the Perk column, but that's not really workable given ranked perks -- adding the ID into the rank column would definitely be confusing).

Anyway, if anyone has some time to switch over the other 16 pages, that would be great ;) Otherwise, I might gradually tackle them each time I have to clean up an editor who has incorrectly changed the rows around. --Nephele^Talk 21:43, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Image

I guess we don't want to keep using the Oblivion skill images for illustration. So constellation images would be the logical chioce - or is that a bad idead? I'm not sure if we can bring them all to a common size - then again it probably isn't needed if we don't display them together. --Alfwyn 18:15, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

I think your image is a good solution for now. I'm assuming the game will have true icons for each of the skills (perhaps just containing the shield image in this case?), in which case we'll want to upload those icon files once we have access to them. --Nephele^Talk 18:21, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Mind uploading anymore of these? We could really use them over the current Oblivion images. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 10:53, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

I uploaded those found in the demo video. Unfortunately the player zooms too fast through the skills, so Restoration and Alteration ended up a bit faint. --Alfwyn 15:10, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure how much attention this will get being but one of the many skill pages, but I've put up a rough version of what I'm going to attempt to follow through with today. High resolution traceovers of the constellations, perhaps with the UESP's color scheme, would look pretty classy. I'm all for opinions on their presentation, though - because mere outlines aren't all that impressive, perhaps they could be inset into a background or something. StoneFrog 16:40, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Well, that's done. StoneFrog 23:21, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Perk Tree Discrepancies

In my latest edit to the perk tree, I tended to favour the information from the demo video. In my opinion, Bethesda's gameplay video is the most accurate information we have on the game right now, and that video clearly shows the Block perk tree, including, for example, a perk named 'Riposte'. I know the perk tree is likely to be altered in the final game. However, until the game is actually released, any other information we have is unsourced and therefore less reliable as far as I'm concerned. I'm willing to fill in missing information using unverified sources, but I'm not willing to delete confirmed information. Those are just the guidelines that I'm using for my edits, and aren't necessarily relevant to anyone else; every editor is likely to come up with different strategies for handling our current state of information limbo.

Another secondary factor in my edit was anticipating that a perk tree image will get added to the page within the next day, and that image will be taken from the demo video. It would be nice to have some consistency between the text and the image. --Nephele^Talk 20:02, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Awesome skill tree images

These are of course fan-made, but look very high quality. You guys might be interested in asking the creator for permission to use them on UESP wiki.

http://skyrimskilltrees.blogspot.com/

Cheers, 115.70.34.82 07:25, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

They're quite pretty but not really suitable for this site. The images Nephele's been working on are much better. rpeh •T•C•E• 07:55, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

The problem with static images like those is that only the original creator can easily modify them if a mistake needs to be fixed, or if more information needs to be added, or the style tweaked. An approach that allows anyone to update the displayed text works better on a wiki. --Nephele^Talk 14:07, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Blocking with dual wielded weapons

Can you block with dual wielded weapons? How exactly would it work because on the controls page it says that 2H weapons block by using the Left Trigger(LT).RIM 21:19, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

No, you can't block when dual wielding. Holding the LT does a power attack with the left weapon. --Quillan^Talk 15:44, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

In particular, do the perks apply when blocking with (dual wielded) weapons, or only when blocking with a shield?--Gargamonk 15:14, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

I think some might, but it probably depends upon the perk. The one that gives elemental resistance specifically says "when blocking with a shield". I'd imagine the basic block perk does, though blocking with a weapon is less effective than a shield. --Quillan^Talk 15:44, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

You can't block with dual wielded weapons, so none of the perks you have in the Block tree will be in effect. -Kastagir 23:59, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Removed Inaccurate Information

I removed inaccurate information regarding "Skill Usage". From what I've seen, and from what other players have said, timing a block provides no benefit over holding block. I'm pretty sure this misconception occurred from pre-release gameplay, where holding block would do a bash automatically. Since bashing is now its own separate button (For example: Holding L1 blocks, pressing R1 while holding L1 does a bash) instead of just holding the block and it coming out automatically, you no longer need to time. If there is some unseen benefit by timing a block, feel free to revert my change and let me know what the difference is. 98.235.186.8 16:53, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Quick Reflexes

How does the perk Quick Reflexes benefit you in combat? Are you able to fatal blow or cancel a power attack?--Shm0key 15:33, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

I was wondering that myself. You don't seem to have enough time to do a power bash, and most regular bashes won't stun your enemy, so you still take the attack. Perhaps it is to do with getting a flourish kill with proper timing against a properly weakened enemy. I just haven't seen that chance, I suppose. 70.64.65.186 21:20, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

I find that during the slowdown the normal bash always interrupts though there is a short lag time on when you bash to when the target staggers.

Well if you have the power bash you can use the bash to interrupt enemy's power attack when the slow-mo kicks in. I think it's also possible to just evade the attack but I just use the bash

I find that most of the time I can back away from the attack safely. RafaelMartins 17:44, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

I find, being faced with the infinite slow time bug, that during the slow time you are able to move at normal speed, attack at normal speed and only the camera seems to follow you more slowly. This would seem to be obvious, too, given the perk's name 46.227.233.28 06:19, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Block Perks: For shields or for two-handed weapons?

Which Block perks only work with a shield and which also work with two-handed weapons? I imagine that the perks with the word "shield" in the description only work with a shield (Deflect Arrows, Elemental Protection, Block Runner, and Shield Charge), while all of the others work with both a shield and a two-handed weapon. Can anyone with fist hand experience (no speculation), confirm this? - cooljoe 99.72.124.246 04:42, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Bad news guys, the Skyrim "wikia" wiki has more info than we do, at least on which block perks work with two-handed weapons: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Block_%28Skyrim%29 - cooljoe 99.72.124.246 04:22, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

In other words the left side is for shields only and the right side is for both while the middle is for shields only as well

This isn't entirely true. Block Runner will be useful for anyone that wants to bash with a two handed weapon as it will allow them to maneuver better in combat when blocking with a two-handed weapon. It is not the most effective use of perks, however, due to the two prerequisites that won't be of any use to someone not using a shield. Kastagir 16:35, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Calculating Block Effectiveness

Does anyone know how to calculate how effective a block is? Particularly in the context of +Block enchantments. For example I've found out there's no value in having over 85% magic resist, and naturally over 100% Fortification in a school of magic has no benefit, and over 100% elemental resists are similarly useless. There are presumably diminishing returns for +Block enchantments as well, but I haven't found how to calculate it. --LakeSolon 01:58, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

In generaly if you look Oblivion sistem regarding effectivness ther is 25% for weapons and 50% for shields. I have played whit shields big part of my game and for now important thing to be noted is that you mast have your croshear in the enemy who attack you or demage sims to not be reduced no mather if your positioning is corect. Demage that will kill me from creature like spiders power attack is realy greatly reduced to not noticable demage even i have only 3 perk in Shield Wall and enchanted ring whit 20% effectivnes whit no other armor. Having Quick Reflexes perk will give you chance to evade attack and never need to indure actual demage. — Unsigned comment by NEVER BoRN (talk • contribs) at 11:45 on 13 December 2011

Shield Charge without Block Runner?

Does anyone know what happens if you pick up Shield Charge perk but not block runner? Do you just slowly creep to your foes with your shield up and then they just fly away when they touch your shield? :D

Well the perk needs sprint to activated, so without block runner it's just a waste.

Blocking with 2-handed weapons

I know that the 5 Shield Wall perks work with 2-handed weapons, but I was wondering if they are particularly worthwile since I don't plan on using a shield. Obviously, with the 5 points I could block 40% more effectively, but the real question is how effective is blocking with a 2-handed weapon in the first place? If it is not particulary effective, than a mere 40% modification wouldn't be worthwile; certainly not worth 5 points.208.84.58.199 19:40, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

For use with Two-Handed weapons, the Block perk tree should probably be pursued mainly for the Bash perks, so you are right in that taking more than one level of the entry perk would not be necessary unless you want to block attacks. Bashing is more effective with Two-Handed weapons [1]. -Kastagir 00:04, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Blocking with shields and weapons is generally about the same effectiveness, though bashing does noticably more damage with a weapon. Not all of the perks work using a weapon though. Kai Heilos 03:14, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

This is false. Shields block at least 100% more damage than weapons. Try it out... it's pretty obvious. I do not know the answer to the original question though, but would also really like to know. I have heard the skill description is bugged and it's really +10% more effective per level of Shield Wall instead of +5% (which is consistant with Fortify Block). Anon 03:14, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Shields are more effective at blocking damage, yes, but two-handed weapons do more damage when bashing than shields do. This has been confirmed through extensive testing. Kastagir 16:32, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Elemental Protection

I can't find specific info about Elemental Protection anywhere. Does it work against any elemental attack, be it an enchanted weapon, an enemy spell (including area) and/or a Dragon's breath? I was eager to take it but now I'm not sure it's working as I thought it would. Anyone have details? RafaelMartins 17:47, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

It definately reduces spell and dragon breath damage, and given the way fire/frost/storm enchants work on weapons (damage scaled with your destruction skill it seems), I'd say it reduces that too.--90.12.61.82 20:10, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

block runner sneak exploit

Playing unpatched Skyrim (or the very first patch, forgot which) and I have the block runner perk. While sneaking if I bring my shield up, my movement speed increased to normal movement speed instead of the reduced speed from sneaking. Is that still the case? It may be worth noting this in the article. (I'm not updating my xbox to find out. I like my dragons flying forward.) 70.112.232.71 16:27, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

This bug is in the latest patch as well (at least for the 360). It certainly seems unintentional - probably one of the many small programming oversights that will be fixed when they get around to it. 146.115.161.12 21:20, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Leveling Block

Well we all kow mexanic recived demage/exp. ratio make you level slower or faster whit armor skils. But i read this in one of pages i fide and think of this to be realy important if you can finde best enchanced shield whit fortify Block and make real adventage. SO this is what i finde: "If you have the enchanting perk, you can put on an enchantment (if you disenchant an item with it on) that will allow you to put more damage absorbtion on your shield. (up to 40% more damage absorbed) this greatly aids in getting your block up." I hope this worck, some need to test it to be sure.

Shield Charge

Currently, the Notes claim that Shield Charge stops working after a while, requiring a console perk manipulation to bring it back. Any truth to this?166.182.3.88 23:34, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

True, it will stop working after some playing time (days passed in game, but how long is currently unknown), I just console it back for my redguard.

I *might* have found the actual cause of this - it seems my Shield Charge broke after I passed 400 hours on my savefile. While noting this was on the 360, can anyone else confirm/debunk this idea? I'II check the in-game time on my files tomorrow while I'm at it, but a nice even number like 400 hours seems like quite a coincidental time for this bug to kick in. 86.175.70.76 09:40, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

To answer the above: on my Xbox 360 save file, Shield Charge stopped working right around 130 hours. I don't think play time is directly related. You can still do the animation, but you don't flash a different color and make the hissing sound that signifies the perk is actually working, and you can't knock anyone over at all.

Exploit Section

I am curious if a section titled Exploit needs to exist. I don't know if such a section as ever been employed in another skill page for any of our namespaces, and I am curious as to how useful such a section could even be. Personally, if this section even has a use, I think there must be a much better place for it than on the skill page. Before I go deleting a whole section from the page, may I have a second opinion from someone else? Eric Snowmane^Questions?_{Send an Email} 00:08, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Addendum:I looked around and found a similar section in SR:Archery and propose that one gets deleted too, these are the only two sections I know of to have such a section. Eric Snowmane^Questions?_{Send an Email} 00:17, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Shield Perks are wrong

Due to testing done here [2], it seems that shield perks actually improve your block by 10% each perk, not the 25/5/5/5/5 it says in game. To reflect this in the table should the numbers that are there be changed or do they need to reflect what it says in game and have the actual numbers added somewhere else? Kai Heilos 01:00, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

power bash/disarming bash and bows

Any idea if these perks work with bow bashes?

These perks work with anything that is capable of bashing, i.e. bows, one-handed weapons, two-handed weapons and shields. Sign your comments, please. Kastagir 20:20, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Block/Crouch forward roll, Shield Charge crouch movement exploits?

The crouching block normal movement speed issue with Block Runner is already known. I want to mention a couple of other issues I recently discovered but have yet to read about.

1) Crouch Block, Forward Roll (w/o Sneak's Silent Roll perk, w/o Shield Charge):

While crouching and moving forward
a) hold block
b) hold sprint
c) release block
The charactor will execute a forward roll as the block is released.
Block Runner has no effect on the forward roll itself, only the movement speed while the shield is raised.

2) Constant crouching sprint with Shield Charge (with or w/o Block Runner)

While crouching and moving forward
While crouching and moving forward
a) hold block
b) hold sprint (charactor will start crouch sprinting due to Shield Charge)
c) release block
d) release sprint
The charactor will remain crouch sprinting INDEFINITELY even after stamina is exhausted.
Unfortunately, running into enemies in this state does not knock them down (imagine the havoc if it was so ...)

--SupidSeep 01:37, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Slow Motion

Has anyone else ever been in the situation where you raise your shield, quick reflexes activates, and you bash them and lower your shield and the world goes into permanent slow motion? I was fighting a bunch of guys in the Goldenglow Estate when all of a sudden everything went really slow and the enemies very slowly fell down or stumbled back... I was able to steal the Queen bee statue and run before anyone could even turn their heads. Opening the doors took forever, but I went into the next zone and everything was fine. I did it again, I think you need to wait for someone to power attack, then try to bash (I had no stamina) and move outta the way... I'm on the 360. — Unsigned comment by 174.88.90.99 (talk)

Yes, it was mentioned on the page, but under skill increases. I've moved it to the bugs section. Vardis 04:41, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

One More Training Tip

One way to train block easily and safely at low levels is to summon a familiar, attack it until it turns on you, and use block. If you have a follower, they will not attack either you or the familiar. The limited spell duration makes this safer than using enemies, e.g. wolves, and you can choose where you train, making this doubly safe. This has not been tested with reanimation, but anything less than the Dead Thrall spell is only usable once per corpse anyway.

Is this tip worth putting on the main page?

Does the 'deflect arrows' perk apply to weapons?

If so I think this should be included under 'notes'. --Admos 14:47, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Deflect Arrows has absolutely no effect when blocking with a weapon. Add that to notes if you want, but the perk does already have the word "shield" in it.--SushiSquid 14:49, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

It may be useful to specify what perks apply to shields exclusively, but I'm not sure which do.--Admos 14:58, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

All of the perks that mention a shield in their description require a shield. All of the perks that don't mention a shield do not. This is why I really don't think we need extra notes on it.--SushiSquid 15:38, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Bug: Shield Charge seems to (sometimes) work with 2-handed weapons

After a good deal of testing, I've figured out how to make Shield Charge trigger while using a two-handed weapon, or a one-handed weapon with the left hand empty. This perk seems to 'activate' differently based on one of two modus operandi:

1. You hold down block as you move, then start sprinting. This seems to be the way the perk is intended to function. If you have a shield equipped and you do this, you will start sprinting, your shield (and character) will light up green, the 'Fzzzzzt!' sound will play, your stamina will drain constantly, you will adopt a special shield-charge animation in either first or third person, and you will knock aside any npc in your path. This will continue until you stop sprinting. Interestingly, if you stop blocking but continue sprinting, you will continue to sprint in the special shield-charge animation, but your green glow will fade, you'll go 'Fzzzzt!' again, and you will not knock aside npcs anymore.

This method will not work for two-handed weapons. If you hold down block as you move and then try to start sprinting, you will not start sprinting and the shield charge perk will not activate.

2. You're already sprinting, and then start blocking. Doing it this way causes the perk to trigger much differently. Now, it seems to have a chance to momentarily trigger both when you start blocking and when you stop blocking. It will function this way whether you're using a two-handed weapon, a 1-handed weapon with a shield, or a one-handed weapon with the left hand empty. I've found that if you sprint up to a npc and rapidly tap and release block, it will trigger and you'll knock the npc aside, making this perk very useful for those specializing in two-handed weapons, especially if you're already putting points in block for the bash talents.

Spellbreaker+Elemental Protection?

Does the Elemental Protection bonus get applied to an attack before or after it hits the Spellbreaker's ward? If it gets applied before, then the Spellbreaker's ward strength effectively doubles (not actually, it's still a 50-point ward, but what would have been 100 points of damage before the perk no longer breaks it if this is the case), but if it gets applied after, then since you stagger when your ward shatters and you drop your shield, the perk would become useless while using the Spellbreaker. So, does Elemental Protection double the Spellbreaker's ward, or do nothing? ISmartMan 21:38, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

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