Oblivion talk:Battlehorn Castle (place)/Archive 1

This is an archive of past Oblivion talk:Battlehorn Castle (place) discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Real or Not?

All speculation, debate, etc. about existence and/or possible release of this mod goes here. does anyone have a release date yet? --unsigned

Has this been officially confirmed? There have been rumors that this is just a hoax... --unsigned

i would also like to know this? i dont want to sound demanding but can u guys find a relese date plz. --unsigned

I called my buddy Pete Hines, and he told me it's going to be some time this year. I forgot to ask him if I could release the exact date on UESP or not. (sarcasm, ftw) --Aristeo 21:34, 3 September 2006 (EDT)

i have seen the picture added on the dragonfire castle page and i was wondering where it came from and would also like to know if their is a relese date yet. if not i would like to know. --unsigned

That scan is purportedly from an Xbox magazine of some sort (it's been going around for a few months now). There's no release date. Despite the article seemingly leading up to its release other plugins have come out sooner than it (Tomes definitely did, and I think Vile Lair did too). It's either taking longer to make this one or else it has been cancelled... or the scan may just have been a hoax to begin with. The only other source I've seen is an EGM article, and they aren't known for being all that trustworthy. Garrett^Talk 18:18, 14 September 2006 (EDT)

Has this been offically cancled? Jadrax 19:20, 8 February 2007 (EST)

Gamesradar has an interesting quote. "It's more than likely that this stronghold will be the Dragonfire Castle" The quote is located here, http://www.gamesradar.com/gb/pc/game/news/article.jsp?sectionId=1006&articleId=20070215105153593059&releaseId=20060125103221890055

So maybe everyone jumped the gun at calling it cancelled? I tried to email this website, and ask for confirmation on it being cancelled, but never received a reply.

Can you confirm the cancellation of DragonFire Castle?

from Patton <grafxbypatton@gmail.com> Jan 28 to uesp@sympatico.ca date Jan 28, 2007 10:29 PM subject Can you confirm the cancellation of DragonFire Castle? mailed-by gmail.com

Anyways, check out the that page I linked. "New Oblivion download revealed". And maybe reply to someone who emails you? =]

Patton AKA PeeKnuckle

This is an unofficial fan site. In other words, we have absolutely no inside information on what Bethesda is planning. It's just made up of users like you sharing their information. And, unfortunately, emails on topics that are basically completed unrelated to the site are not too likely to get answered. Especially if you send them to the guy who is in charge of keeping this site up and running... he tends to get a lot of emails, many on much more important topics. If you have an Elder Scrolls related question, posting it on the wiki (like you just did) is a far more useful approach: now anyone who visits the site can see your question and help to answer it. Although, as I said, I doubt anyone knows the answer any better than you do, so your chances of getting a definitive answer are still pretty low. --Nephele 16:50, 15 February 2007 (EST)

I understand this is an unofficial fansite. But when you list an expansion, or plugin, as "cancelled", then I'd like to know how that information was gleamed. Who else would I email, but the person who runs the site? The information is on the site he runs. If he has something related to ElderScrolls, and it says it's cancelled, what is wrong about enquiring about the information, learned from his site? Yes, I could have asked here. But I thought I'd do it in a more private form. And the main reason why I even asked him, in the first place, was people were saying that uesp isn't trustworthy, since anyone can edit it. So, I went to the owner, to see if he had information on DragonFire Castle, and if it was indeed, confirmed. I see your point, please don't think that I don't. But I also hope you see mine. Patton

Yes, I understand where you're coming from; I'm just trying to explain why Daveh probably didn't reply to your email. Since Daveh didn't make the edit in question, he's unlikely to know why the edit was made. And unfortunately, this particular edit [1] was made by an anonymous editor, so it would be pretty tough to ask them.

As for UESP being unreliable because anyone can edit it, I'd disagree with that point ;) You could actually argue that it's more reliable than most web sites, because there are a lot more people checking the facts and fixing any mistakes that get made. And it definitely contains more information than most web sites, because it's the combined knowledge of so many different people. Every edit that gets made here is checked over by other editors, including our Patrollers. Vandalism and nonsense edits do not last long. The edit in question here was admittedly unconfirmed; as you can see above Jadrax was trying to get more input presumably to decide whether to keep the edit or revert it. In the absence of any information to the contrary, and without any evidence that an edit was made in bad faith, we Assume Good Faith.

Sorry about the bit of ranting there, but as someone who puts a lot of effort into making sure the info here is accurate, I felt compelled to respond to the inference that uesp is less trustworthy than other web sites because it's a wiki. I definitely trust any information here more than anything I'd read on a forum ;) --Nephele 19:53, 15 February 2007 (EST)

Don't apologize about the rant. I happen to agree 100% with what you said. That's why I wanted someone to verify that it was cancelled. And funny thing, as I'm typing this out... I'm replying to a post at the Oblivion forum on xbox.com. It's a heated debate about information I used from here. Impaticular, the "Master Mortar & Pestle" and how it's only at one place for certain. They're claiming they go to that spot, and it's only apprentice, and that my information (I.E UESP) is wrong. Thanks for the reply, Nephele. Feel free to clean these replies when you're done reading them. =] Patton

Good to hear we're on pretty similar wavelengths in the end :) And you could always post a question on the Morrowind:Alchemy Apparatus talk page about your forum question if you wanted more ammunition... you'd even get to test someone else's responsiveness, since I'm strictly non-Morrowind (so far) ;) --Nephele 01:25, 16 February 2007 (EST)

If it's this old for such a simple mod, it's fairly likely that it was a hoax. I move for the deletion of the page. 68.82.237.175 17:08, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

I agree, if there is no evidence that it is even being developed the page shouldn't exist. All it's doing is spreading a rumour. Course I still hope the rumour is true but...

Well, other than the fact that there is still some evidence that this might still be under development (see the link at Oblivion_Talk:Downloads#Dragonfire Castle). --Nephele 23:06, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

This page has caused several threads recently at the offical forums. In my oppinion we don't need to delete this page, but there should be a note at the top explaining that this is not confirmed officaly by beth, and might not be released (or even exist). Does anyone agree with that? --Arcatus 06:44, 12 May 2007 (EDT)

Recent edit claims additional confirmation in a recent interview -- but no source is cited. )(And I use "additional" generously -- the bare quote that I've seen from Pete Hines ("We may have some additional DLC content.") doesn't count as confirmation in my book. If no better confirmation is produced, we should drop the edit and just list it as rumored with a warning on the page to that effect. --Wrye 21:47, 27 May 2007 (EDT)

From The Official Xbox Magazine[2]:

While Shivering Isles was reportedly the last piece of downloadable content for Oblivion, Bethesda aren’t leaving Tamriel behind just yet, with another download (or two) due in the wake of Shivering Isles; “It's a fighter stronghold kind of thing,” the designer stated. “It's the one character class that we haven't really dealt with yet so it'll be something for those guys who are into the heavy armor and the big, big sticks…[we’re also] leaving the door open because the download content has proved very popular”.

Whilst this interview with Bruce Nesmith stops short of attaching the name Dragonfire Castle to the project, it does confirm that a Fighters Stronghold is in development and planned for release. It certainly suggests that the mod is at a more advanced stage than a concept.

Whether this Fighters Stronghold turns out to be the much anticipated Dragonfire Castle remains to be seen, though this would seem likely. --unsigned (moved from official mods page) 9 June 2007

I chopped the following from the page. There's a brief blurb that says that Pete said (in a video interview) a warrior stronghold was coming out. The blurb than speculates that the stronghold would be Dragonfire Castle. I tried digging through the video (17 minutes -- didn't have time to listen to it in full) and did not find the quote.

In febuary, Bethesda confirmed they were working on a warrior home, possible Dragonfire castle. [3]

Since the edit lacked a direct quote and since it wasn't added correctly into the page (just throw in semi-randomly) and since I don't have time to track down the actual quote, I yanked it. If the person who added the above can dig the full actual quote out of the video and post it here, good. But even so, it's still speculation that the stronghold is Dragonfire Castle. --Wrye 19:32, 13 July 2007 (EDT)

Takes place at 7:40 [4]

Having looked that over, and combining it with Nesmith comments, it appears that there was a fighters stronghold mod which was developed, and that almost certainly would have been the Dragonfire Castle mod. However, the quote was from February (before SI was released), and the mod still isn't out. Again, the time argument applies -- if they had wanted to release the mod, they would have done so by now.

Also, from other comments in the interview, it appears that Bethsoft is rather ambivalent about this mod. Pete says that the stronghold mods won't be included with GOTY type packages because they're too immersion breaking -- in regular gameplay you have to work quite hard to get a home, but all the official stronghold mods just give you a home -- which breaks progress through regular gameplay.

Second consideration that Pete voices around the 7:40 mark is questions about quality -- is the mod fun enough to play? Most likely this mod was not meeting that test. As is, their earlier download mods (excluding Razor, KOTN and SI) have gotten a lot of criticism for being pretty lame -- this mod, if released, would likely fall into the lame category, and would leave a stink in the air -- an I suspect that Bethsoft would rather their last release for Oblivion be SI rather than another lame stronghold. (Small DLC revenue would not make up for negative publicity.)

(Part of the considerations here is that with the focus on Fallout, Bethsoft probably doesn't have the resources to fix Dragonfire Castle to make is sufficiently good enough.)

So, summary: Yeah, they probably do have it largely developed, and possibly they might yet send it out the door. But they clearly have reasons for not releasing it, and the very delayed release strongly suggests that it will never go out the door.

--Wrye 16:59, 15 July 2007 (EDT)

Well, I did say "possibly"... It's finally being released: DLC6 to be released 10/15/07, though apparently with a name change to "Battlehorn Castle". --Wrye 16:51, 10 October 2007 (EDT)

I feel so vindicated now. =] -PeeKnuckle

Rename?

In light of recent ddevelopments, should we now move this page to Battlehorn Castle, and change this page to a redirect? --GuildKnight (Talk) ^contribs 19:54, 10 October 2007 (EDT)

From the press releases, it looks like the name will actually be "Fighter's Stronghold". Probably best to wait until the actual release to be sure that we get it right. At that point do the rename (but be sure to leave redirect in place since outside sites do link to this "Dragonfire Castle" page.--Wrye 20:05, 10 October 2007 (EDT)

We'll probably end up making both pages and having one redirect to the other. Much like Frostcrag Spire is also known as Wizard's Tower or Dunbarrow Cove is also known as Thieves Den. Dragonfire Castle will probably be moved to one or the other and a redirect left it its place. But Wrye is right - we should wait until it is released before changing anything. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 23:11, 10 October 2007 (EDT)

Page Move?

The place name and quest name for this are the same and it's already causing one small problem. The /Description page is written about the quest, but that means that pages using the Place Link template, such as Oblivion:Black Road look silly. There will be more cases as the plugin is integrated into pages like Oblivion:Places. Should we split this out into Battlehorn Castle (place) and Battlehorn Castle (quest) as we've done elsewhere, or just live with it? --Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 09:39, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

I think you are absolutely right here. But it hasn't been done for Frostcrag Spire and Deepscorn Hollow. May be that should be looked into as well. --Mankar Camoran 10:06, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

I vote we split it up. As it stands, it's a bit long...that's a lot of different kinds of information for one page. --Eshe^talk10:23, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

It is indeed long. That's why I've been creating other pages rather than slamming everything all on the one page, but it's only helped a little bit. Of course there's even a case for a three-way split: Quest, Place and Plugin. And you're right about those others, Mankar. The same sort of thing should probably happen there, although the pages aren't quite so crammed. --Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 10:39, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

Might as well throw in Dunbarrow Cove while we're at it (although somewhat mitigated by the fact that Dunbarrow Cove is hidden within Smuggler's Cave). All of the house mods have the same issue that the place name is the same as the quest name. We had originally been trying to squeeze everything for one mod into a single page. But now with increased content and specialized templates, along with the introduction of better labels for mod information, it's probably not the best approach. --Nephele^Talk 12:53, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

Makes sense to me. I'm the one responsible for most of this page's layout as it stands now (IP address 128.211.210.48, if you care). I was just trying to make it look like the other house plug-in pages. Splitting them all up might not actually be a bad idea. Take a look at the way Knights is done for a general idea.Maratanos 21:49, 21 October 2007 (EDT)

(unindent) Okay I've sandboxed the proposed change. Take a look at the following to see what I'm thinking:

User:Rpeh/Sandbox/2|Sandbox/2 - possible new Battlehorn Castle (place) page.

User:Rpeh/Sandbox/2/Description|Sandbox/2/Description - description page for possible new Battlehorn Castle (place) page.

User:Rpeh/Sandbox/4|Sandbox/4 - possible new Battlehorn Castle (quest) page.

User:Rpeh/Sandbox/6|Sandbox/6 - possible new Fighter's Stronghold plugin page.

These are in my user space but feel free to edit them if you like (for as long as they hold the described content).

Let me know what you think. --Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 10:04, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

I think you have done a great job. I have just made one small change to the quest page. See what you think of it. --Mankar Camoran 11:55, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

Yeah, that makes sense. Anybody else? --Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 13:31, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

Looks good to me. Given that the previous discussion suggests everyone is in favour of splitting up the pages, I'd say it's probably worth going ahead and putting the new pages in place sooner rather than later. IMO delaying just increases the chances of edits being made to the current page, that then need to be transferred over to the revised pages. --Nephele^Talk 14:21, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

Well as you've probably noticed, I've done it and fixed the various links. I suppose we now need the same for Frostcrag Spire, Deepscorn Hollow and Dunbarrow Cave now. It might be a bit easier than this one because those pages hardly ever get edited these days. Volunteers? :p --Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 09:43, 28 October 2007 (EDT)

Questions

I took the liberty of making an area for questions, since I'm sure there will be plenty. Here's one to start: Are all the containers guaranteed safe? In all the towers too, and in the blacksmith's house? Another question: If I ride several horses into the stables (I'm currently in the middle of riding my 2nd horse there, but the game crashed...) will all but my "current" horse (the one that travels with me when I fast-travel) stay in the stables? I don't really feel like walking all the way to Cheydinhal if the answer is no. Thanks in advance! --Wendy

Answer to one the above: After running all the way to Anvil, and then riding back, I discovered that my dreams of a stable full of horses were not to be. The other horse I had parked there had wandered off, presumably back to the Skingrad stable where I'd bought it.

I've not tried this at the Castle, but I've managed to get a full stable elsewhere; 7 armoured horses plus Shadowmere. (I never bother with the Old Nag). --Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 02:36, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

Yet another question: Rona Benanius (the maid) offers to follow you around, and she's marked as essential. Does this make her an immortal assistant in fighting? Or is she useless?

Technically yes but she doesn't go with you out of the castle.--Bambobo 07:30, 16 October 2007 (EDT)

Are the Dragonsword and Bulwark leveled when you install the plug-in or when you obtain them? Thanks. -Ryan

I don't know if this is either a bug or me being stupid, but I can't seem to find Lord Kelvyn's Bulwark. There's no chest at the foot of my bed in the private quarters. I've bought every upgrade so there shouldn't be a reason for it not showing up. Also, do the Men-at-Arms respawn? Thanks. -Kenny

Well, it could be a bug. That depends. ; You say you've bought every upgrade, but you might not be aware that one of the upgrades, the Dwemer Forge, does not become available until you purchase one of the other upgrades, return to the castle, and talk to the guard bearing a message from the merchant. The message explains the rest (albeit with slight error). As to the respawn: Yeah, they all respawn. Except the Castellan. When he dies, you need to buy a new one.Maratanos 21:38, 21 October 2007 (EDT)

Xbox 360 Downloads

I'm on the x-box 360 so i just wanted to dowload it, but it isn't anywhere in the list of the stuff I can dowload for oblivon! I've already got mehrunes lair, spell tomes and the shivering ilses, does anyone knowwhat i have to do/ I have a silver x-box live membership80.127.45.182 14:50, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

I downloaded it from Xbox Live Marketplace using my silver (no-charge, basic) membership without any problems. I just pulled up the list of all available downloads for Oblivion, and it was there at the bottom of the list as a free download. I'd suggest just checking again. Make sure to use the Xbox Live Marketplace (not the list of downloads shown within the game), and then make sure to scroll all the way down through the list, because what with all the video trailers and themes it's pretty long. --Nephele^Talk 15:37, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

I did that twice already, still thesame, oh and I lokked wrong, i now even have got gold, could it be a problem I live in the netherlands, europe? thanks for getting me a separate title 80.127.45.182 16:07, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

" could it be a problem I live in the netherlands, europe?" I know that there's been problems before with certain countries getting downloadable content before others, or some countries not yet able to get the download. I forgot which game(s) it was though. This is all I know, unfortunately, sorry. --Allanon

hé, I looked again hen I came home and it was there! I just dowl0aded it and it works fine,80.127.45.182 12:30, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

How to download

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I can't figure out how to actually download the content. Any help? — Unsigned comment by 81.146.20.187 (talk)

Well, what I did for the Xbox 360 version is that I went to the marketplace and downloaded it, but for the PC version, I imagine it is on Bethsda's website. — Unsigned comment by 24.255.233.209 (talk)

The file wasn't yet available (for PC-users) when you posted your comment. The file is available for download now. You can find it at the Official Site. --Timenn 09:39, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

Oh, it's because I use firefox. Nevermind.

i've got that problem too, see myines 3 topic titles above, i'm lving in the netherlands, so I think it has got something to do with the regions80.127.45.182 16:17, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

Leveled

Does anyone know if it will have anything leveled? Like Deepscorn hollow has the crimson eviscerator? The reason being I plan on starting a new character and as I will soon have all the DLC it will be much more fun to start and have so much stuff available.--Bambobo

I think the Dragon blade and Lord Kalvyn's shield are leveled.--Willyhead 14:10, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

They are - those are the only two. --Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 02:32, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

Moved?

The questname in the game is named 'Fighter's Stronghold'- I'm pretty sure.--Willyhead 12:47, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

I doublechecked both by examining the esp file and by bringing up the construction set before going through the insanity of trying to merge two separate pages that were simultaneously being edited. --Nephele^Talk 12:50, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

Nephele is right (and is anybody surprised?) It's definitely called Battlehorn Castle. --Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 12:59, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

Oh ye, sorry! I'd scribbled some notes down on paper while I was playing so that I could write an article on it and the notes said that the title of the quest was 'Fighter's Stronghold'. Checked again now and you were both correct. My mistake! :p--Willyhead 13:23, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

Install Details Anyone?

Okay, before I install this... does anyone know if this just installs one file or does it extract to the data directory as well? --Gerdofal 00:00, 16 October 2007 (EDT)

The exe installs DLCBattlehornCastle.bsa and DLCBattlehornCastle.esp into the Data directory and adds the esp to the DLCList.txt file. Z-95 17:23, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

Great... so I don't need to worry about an overwrite of my other mods in the data dir :) Thx. --Gerdofal 14:51, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

Mistakes Section

I'm removing the entry that says the note saying the forge costs 3000 is a mistake because the base price is 1500. A merchant would not talk in base prices. They would rationally talk in the "before haggle" price. A merchant wouldn't sell at base price and wouldn't want to tell a customer that he inflated the price 100%.

If that particular note is still inaccurate for some reason (like it's still not 3000, I don't have time to go look) then someone should put it back with the correct information. But it's not a mistake for not saying 1500.

The base price is what we use for all items on the site, and it of course depends on your Mercantile skill. If you have a Mercantile of 100, the price WILL in fact be 1500 gold exactly. If it's less than that, you'll pay more than the base cost, but the exact formula is slightly complicated and doesn't need to be discussed on this page. (It's shown in detail on the Mercantile page already.) --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 10:03, 19 October 2007 (EDT)

You may use the base price for all items on this site as far as telling the true value goes, which makes sense. However, in this case, it is an in-game statement made by a character. We do not know how much this fictional merchant fictionally paid for it, and it is not logical for any merchant, real or not, to sell an item at the base price or let a customer know the base price. Labeling this as a "mistake" implies that it wasn't intentional, a mistake by the developers, when in fact it was probably entirely intentional and makes perfect sense. Calling this a mistake is not recognizing the clear line between what is the "game world" and what is the "real world". List the actual cost of the thing as 1500 because that's what it is at its base, but its not what the merchant is selling it for without mercantile bonuses and *that* is what the section is calling a mistake. The note text itself is not a mistake! The note says what the merchant would sell it for without mercantile bonuses. 74.135.100.99

No, no, and no. The note says what the base price is, **if** you'll actually read it. 3000 gold supposedly "barely covers" the cost of its purchase "much less" installation. It is a logical conclusion from this that the base price should be, according to the note, 3000 gold. Or else somewhere very close. Definately not half that value. Maratanos 18:47, 21 October 2007 (EDT)

I won't argue it anymore after this but that still doesn't make sense. He's saying 3000 gold barely covers the cost of its fictional purchase. The purchase price in-game by a fictional character has no implications to base price. Base price is largely a non-in-game "real" way of looking at a price while "purchase price" would be what the fictional character in the game actually paid for it, which we do not know except for what he tells us in the note. We do not know what he fictionally paid for it, nor do we know how much of the 3000 he charges is for installation. But whatever, if you want to label it a mistake, go for it. 74.135.100.99

Well then, one more clarification for posterity. When the player is a master of mercantile, they are buying items for base price. This very strongly implies that base price is indeed the general consensus value of the item. Why? Let's think a moment. A merchant is incapable of selling an item for less than its base price. Merchants in the real world almost never sell an item for less than the purchase price, because it would lose them money. Therefore it is a reasonable assumption given basic economics that the merchants are simply refusing to make a loss on their sales by always selling at the purchase price or above. In other words, it's a reasonable assumption that for basic purposes (ignoring the issues involved in extra transactions of the item in question, since they're largely irrelevant here), base price IS purchase price. The merchants are simply forgoing their own profit for the master of mercantile because he/she is such a good bargainer. And a final thing. With the amount of mercantile he has, Nilphas will NEVER charge 3000 gold. Ever. At worst he'll charge 185% of base price at 2775. And that's if he absolutely loathes you and you're the worst barterer ever. I tried. Maratanos 19:27, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

Quality

Please do the research, people? I can't actually believe anyone would actually think that the upgrades would actually cost 2577 gold. It's called haggling, guys. It means that not everything costs its base price. This is exactly the sort of thing we should be using the Construction Set for. 128.211.210.48 19:37, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

Men-at-Arms

Does anyone know the statistics of the "Battlehorn men-at-arms". Specifically their level, whether or not their equipment levels and if they respawn. Thanks.--Bambobo 16:48, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

They respawn afteer three days, and yes, their equipment is leveled (up to ebony Quality). I'd like to know their statistics too.-- lordDagon

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