Lore talk:White-Gold Tower

WGT and barriersEdit

The White Gold Tower was the hidden actor in the Oblivion Crisis, as it was the tower, and not its anchor, the Amulet of Kings, nor the symbol of the connection, the Dragonfires, which upheld the Lunar Lattice between Mundus and Oblivion.

Um... what does WGT have to do with the Dragonfires, or the barriers between Tamriel and Oblivion? Did I miss something in Oblivion? —- LordDagon 10:09, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

The biggest plot hole in Oblivion. Here is the ESF thread that goes into it. 62.251.15.186 06:10, 7 August 2008 (EDT) Proweler

The post by B is very apropos the Lore discussion... I know it is old, but here. --Benould^•T•C 22:01, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

It's Oblivion that missed something, in their quest to not explain their own plot. WGT, Red Mountain, the Khajiiti religion and practices, a certain structure on Balfiera Island, High Rock that featured in Daggerfall, all these help hold Mundus together. And when they are all functioning, the Daedra cannot enter. The Dragonfires are just a political and religious symbol established by Emperor Reman relating to the Amulet of Kings, which is bound to WGT.Temple-Zero 10:17, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

You might want to write an article on TESF about that first, get it peer reviewed and stick it up on TIL or it's original research by wikipedia standards. Then you can also stick a nice reference to it in the article. 62.251.15.186 06:10, 7 August 2008 (EDT) Proweler

Do you anticipate anyone having anything to say about it if I did?Temple-Zero 22:41, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

(←) I just rewrote the article because people seem to be very confused on it's significance at the moment. What was left from the last edit just seemed too stubby for WGT. Hope you dont mindTalos 18:41, 23 August 2008 (EDT)Talos

Moved from the ArticleEdit

Since this dubious (and at least partly incorrect) paragraph is already causing confusion (see above) I'm moving it here. The discussion to which Nephele referred Antares is interesting but should not prevent the editing of incorrect material. Deleting this paragraph was going too far but moving it here is appropriate. I have replaced it with some descriptive text based on cited sources. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 04:33, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

Originally built by the Ayleids, the tower has both a symbolic significance and is of very real cosmic importance to the stability of Tamriel. Its location at the center of an array of other Towers serving similar purposes give it an untold power to influence Creation. The White Gold Tower was the hidden actor in the Oblivion Crisis, as it was the tower, and not its anchor, the Amulet of Kings, nor the symbol of the connection, the Dragonfires, which upheld the Lunar Lattice between Mundus and Oblivion.

new loreEdit

in the new elder scroll novel the infernal city, prince Attrebus mentions that white gold tower possesses some sort of power(a power which the lord of Umbriel is after) i was wondering whether or not this should be added to this article — Unsigned comment by Drane (talk • contribs) on 16 December 2009

Not really important. We really can't mention that it has some unknown power. Since it could very well be the Dragonfires ability or the ability to keep Oblivion at bay. –Elliot ^talk 08:13, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

White Gold Tower having vast, albeit vague, power isn't new lore in any case.74.65.142.202 03:16, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

How is it not new? the article mentions nothing of it.Drane 18:59, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

UmbacanoEdit

Didn't Umbacano say it used to be called the temple of the ancestors or something like that? If so, it should probably be added.RIM 17:54, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

I can't find that in dialogue, but I may be looking for the wrong thing. More details, please. rpeh •T•C•E• 09:12, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

When you first bring Umbacano the Ayleid statue, he talks a little bit about them. He mentions something about how they were removed from White Gold Tower for safe keeping. His exact words are something along the lines of "they were removed from the Temple of The Ancestors, or White Gold Tower as you might know it as, for safe keeping". I think the quest is The Collector. RIM 09:33, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Well I've found the dialogue, but it doesn't mention the tower: "I am looking for the complete set of ten for my collection. They were once part of the Temple of the Ancestors in the ancient Ayleid capital. Through my research, I have learned that they were removed from the temple before its sack by Men." Later, he says "You know it as White Gold Tower -- the center of the ancient Ayleid capital of Nibenay.", which implies to me that the Temple was simply another building in the capital city but not the White Gold Tower itself. rpeh •T•C•E• 09:59, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

But I thought that the Imperial City was also the Ayleid capital. Also, it is unlikely that there is another WG tower. On top of that, a loading screen hint says "White Gold Tower, built many ages ago by ancient Ayleids" etc.RIM 10:29, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm not disputing that. I'm saying the Tower and the Temple were separate buildings in the city. rpeh •T•C•E• 10:54, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Yeah I know that, but Umbacano said that the temple of the ancestors was now the thing called white gold tower so it looks like they are the same building.RIM 11:49, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Actually, my apologies. You're right - he's talking about the Temple when he comes out with the latter line. rpeh •T•C•E• 12:08, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

No problem, I'll add a small note to the article.RIM 12:24, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Using the WGT to destroy NirnEdit

Upon reading This text (letter 8) (compounded with in-game evidence, but this was the most convenient to link to) it seems that the WGT can be used to the opposite effect than is stated in the article - Instead of stabilizing Nirn, like what i presume the other towers do, this one could also be used to destroy it (which is the Talmor's end goal after "destroying" Talos (i think)), and yet this is never even alluded to in the article. Am i completely incorrect in my assumptions, or has it just not been added to the page yet? — Unsigned comment by 120.22.210.72 (talk) at 01:15 on December 29, 2011

I don't know. I'm not sure whether we can consider those letters canon. Minor Edits 03:41, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Since the text is not found in-game, and since I find no indication that the developers consider this official text, I am going to vote that it is not worth being added to the page. ES^{Question?•Email•Contribs} 15:38, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

That's more or less what we were told in a fan interview back in 2006:

"30. How will the books and texts released after Morrowind (e.g. Vehk's Teachings) and the teasers and reports before Oblivion (e.g. Nu-Mantia Intercept, Love Letter from the Fifth Era, etc.) be folded into the official lore and will this lore appear in-game? ...

Remember that only things that have been published in Elder Scrolls games should be considered official lore."

That being said, many other pages cite to other material on the Imperial Library, so we've evidently not decided to follow that guideline. TIL material seems to exist in a nebulous gray zone where what can be cited is decided on a case-by-case basis. Three other pages cite to the Nu-Mantia intercept: Lore:Aldmeris, Lore:Mundus, and Lore:Heart of Lorkhan, so we might want to take this to the CP. Minor Edits 16:00, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

(←) I forgot to check talk pages; it seems like this has been discussed before, notably here. But the discussion is very long and I'm very tired, so instead of combing through that wall of text, I'm copping out and going to sleep. Minor Edits 16:07, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Wow, that is certainly a lot to think about. A very long read. I am a fast reader and it took me a half hour to get half way. I am just going to copy and paste this whole section to the community portal and we can let everyone else have a look at it. ES^{Question?•Email•Contribs} 16:52, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Just to side step the discussion about the validity of the texts, I don't see the Nu-Mantia Intercept explicitly describing that White Gold can be used to destroy the world. It merely describes White Gold as being "super effective" because its placement as a mystical significance. 86.80.122.213 17:06, 15 January 2012 (UTC) Proweler

(←) After substantial, related discussion on the Community Portal, I think it best to add an OGG cite supporting the Infernal City proposition the WGT is speculated to have "the power necessary to keep Mundus from dissolving back into Oblivion." This already implies that the WGT could theoretically be manipulated to have the opposite affect, so no additional explanation is necessary. Minor Edits 08:07, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Elven Name?Edit

Is there any reference in the existing lore to what the Ayleids or Aldmeri called White Gold Tower? I checked the Ayleid language page to see if the words were in the lexicon, but I didn't see anything except for sancre 'gold'. Davi1521 (talk) 17:14, 10 July 2013 (GMT)

From the article:

"The tower was originally called the Temple of the Ancestors"

I hope that answers your question. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 17:24, 10 July 2013 (GMT)

HyphenatedEdit

I've proposed to move this article to Lore:White-Gold Tower. In every release after Oblivion - Infernal City right through to ESO - the hyphen has been present in the name. It seems like this is the new standard, and this article's name has been bugging me for a while because of it. If anyone wants to pull some stats and compare hyphen usage, I'd be happy to be proven wrong here, but I think we should follow Bethesda's example. —Legoless (talk) 00:28, 22 February 2014 (GMT)

Support. Its used in many places like that.--Jimeee (talk) 00:41, 22 February 2014 (GMT)

This one I support, White-Gold Tower is used vastly more than White Gold Tower. In case anyone is curious, in book texts in ESO, White Gold Tower isn't found, at all. White-Gold Tower is found 15 times. Jeancey (talk) 00:53, 22 February 2014 (GMT)

Support. Seems pretty unambiguous that it's now the standard -- Hargrimm^(T) 01:03, 22 February 2014 (GMT)

Slightly more info which should, I think, fast track this move. Oblivion had 7 instances of White Gold Tower, and 5 instances of White-Gold Tower. The non-hyphenated version was never all that prevalent compared to the hyphenated version, even in Oblivion. Jeancey (talk) 01:05, 22 February 2014 (GMT)

I see in OB 17 uses whithout, and 2 uses with hyphen (12 vs. 9 in SR, but that's probably mostly due to book text not changed). CSList search for OB misses one loading screen, and a lot of dialogue (needs to be fixed). But yes, there's a trend to use the hyphen, so if ESO uses it, renaming should be done. --Alfwyn (talk) 17:04, 22 February 2014 (GMT)

Done! -- Hargrimm^(T) 08:40, 27 February 2014 (GMT)